CNN Inside Politics - Transcripts

CNN Inside Politics - Transcripts
Friday, May 20, 2005

BREAK IN TRANSCRIPT

WOODRUFF: All right, Dana bash at the White House. Dana, thank you.

And with me to talk about the stem cell issue are two members of Congress.

One you just heard Dana mention, Republican Mike Castle of Delaware. He is a co-sponsor of the bill that would expand federal funding. He joins us from Wilmington, Delaware.

New Jersey Republican Chris Smith is on Capitol Hill. He opposes Congressman Castle's bill. He's proposed an alternative.

Congressman Castle, to you first. The president is threatening a veto. We just heard Dana say that you've said you don't think you have a veto-proof majority. Why are you pushing ahead with this issue so hard?

REP. MIKE CASTLE, (R) DELAWARE: Well, I'm pushing ahead, Judy, as are the others who support this legislation, because there are 110 million people out there who someday could benefit from this research. And we believe very strongly that we need to take it down that path.

There's a long ways between the House of Representatives passing legislation and going to the president's desk for a veto. There may be other resolutions of this in some way or another. But we feel very strongly that this is the best hope for medical research in the United States of America. And I don't think that his veto threat is really going to change any votes at all at this time.

WOODRUFF: Congressman Smith, given the fact that there are so many people out there, as Congressman Castle said, who would benefit from this, what is your argument for not supporting it?

REP. CHRIS SMITH, (R) NEW JERSEY: Well, first of all, Judy, the best-kept secret in America today is that cord blood stem cells, that is to say the stem cells that are found in cord blood after a baby has been born, as well as in the placenta, that can be frozen and then applied not only for research, but also for cures-there have been many, many cures. Leukemia, sickle-cell anemia, a whole host of diseases. Repair-heart repair that has been the result of adult stem cells.

Unfortunately, the only game in town, or the main game in town, the big focus of the media and people who are promoting embryonic stem cell research, where there hasn't been a single-not one cure effectuated by embryonic stem cell research. We have an alternative. You mentioned it. It's called the Stem Cell Research and Therapeutic Act-it's designed-of 2005.

WOODRUFF: And you would use the umbilical cord? SMITH: We would get-right now we have very few units of umbilical cord. Most of it becomes medical waste. We want to turn this medical waste into medical miracles, and it's being-it's happening right now.

WOODRUFF: Congressman...

SMITH: We would get up to about 150,000 units...

WOODRUFF: I'm sorry.

SMITH: We could get diversity, we could help cure people all over the country. Unfortunately, that has got obscured. It's put into the shadow of this embryonic. Again...

WOODRUFF: I'm sorry...

SMITH: Let me also say, Judy...

WOODRUFF: Our time is limited.

SMITH: You have to kill embryos in order to kill-in order to get their stem cells. And that's unfortunate. We don't kill embryos. We ought to nurture them and protect them and not kill them.

WOODRUFF: Our time is limited, so I do want to give both of you a chance to comment. Congressman Castle, why doesn't a proposal like Congressman Smith's do the job on this issue? And second, the word out of South Korea today that they have cloned human embryos, used those to get stem cells. Is that hurting your cause today?

SMITH: Well, I think it helps the cause. The latter question is it helps the cause. Because of the advancement of medicine, people see that some of things can be done, although what we're doing is very different. But as far as what Chris has said, his concern, first of all, I support his legislation. I think using adult stem cells or umbilical cord stem cells is a wonderful concept and idea. I'm for advancing medical research, Judy, in any way we possibly can, ethically and morally, and I think that that does that.

Unfortunately, the vast majority, the overwhelming majority of scientists, will tell you they're just insufficient stem cells that can be gathered in that way. And particularly with adult stem cells, when you get into bone marrow issues and issues such as that, they're limited. They're already differentiated. You have 200 stem cells in your body. They can only serve the purpose for they've already been differentiated.

The reason that all of the scientists and researchers basically want to move ahead with the embryonic stem cells is they're undifferentiated, and you can do much more with them and they can replicate...

WOODRUFF: Well, if...

CASTLE: So that you can grow others. And indeed, in terms of... WOODRUFF: If that's the case, Congressman Smith, why not at least look at what Congressman Castle is suggesting?

SMITH: Well, again, we already have embryonic stem cell research being conducted. And if all of these great promises turn out to be true, which I think they will not-there have already been some animal studies which we've been doing for years that have shown that these kind of embryonic stem cell, they have the unfortunate or fortunate, depending how you look at it, propensity to morph into things that you don't want. You don't want tumors, you don't want things of that kind. So there's a real instability...

CASTLE: Judy.

SMITH: Wait, let me finish.

WOODRUFF: So...

SMITH: There's a real instability factor here. But you know, you mentioned the human cloning in South Korea. You know, my friend and colleague from Delaware voted against the human cloning act of 2003, when it came up in February of '03.

WOODRUFF: All right.

SMITH: There are-there's a very bright line, I think, between...

CASTLE: Judy...

WOODRUFF: All right.

SMITH: ... what is ethical and not, and killing human embryos to steal and derive its stem cells is wrong.

WOODRUFF: All right. Very quickly, Congressman Castle.

CASTLE: The point is this. At the end of in-vitro fertilization process you have excess embryos. There's 400,000 embryos in the country, about 2 percent a year become excess. We are saying sign off on all those. No money is exchanged or anything of that nature. Everybody is all signed off. At that points, the physician has to make a decision. Do you put it in a hospital waste bag, or do you use it for research to help people in this world, 110 million people in America.

Judy, that is not the only option. With all due respect...

CASTLE: My view is-either way you dispose of the embryo and those stem cells should absolutely be used for the purpose of human research. It just makes all the sense in the world. So, I don't want to hear about the killing argument and some of the things that the distinguished congressman is bringing up, because either way, you're going to have that problem.

(CROSSTALK) WOODRUFF: Congressmen?

SMITH: The human embryo adoption, so far, 91 human embryos in cryogenically frozen tanks have been adopted. There is an alternative...

WOODRUFF: We're going to have to leave it there.

CASTLE: 91 out of hundreds of thousands. And that's fine.

WOODRUFF: We appreciate it.

(CROSSTALK)

WOODRUFF: And I'm sorry because both of you we want to be hear what both of you are saying. We have to leave it there. Thank you very much.

CASTLE: Thank you.

SMITH: Thank you.

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