FOX "Fox News Sunday with Chris Wallace" - Transcript: Keystone XL
Interview
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WALLACE: President Obama is under new pressure to finally decide the fate of the Keystone pipeline. The Senate is set to take up a bill tomorrow approving the project that passed the House with bipartisan support. And perhaps Mr. Obama's biggest reason to delay a decision just disappeared, but the president is sticking to his veto threat. We brought in two key Senators to discuss Keystone from North Dakota, Republican John Hoeven, one of the leading sponsors of the pipeline approval. And from Delaware, Democrat Chris Coons who opposes the project. Senators, welcome to Fox News Sunday .
Last month the president said there was one big issue delaying a decision on Keystone. Here it is.
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OBAMA: You've got a Nebraska judge that's still determining whether or not the new path for this pipeline is appropriate. Once that is resolved, then the State Department will have all the information it needs to make its decision.
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WALLACE: Now, on Friday the Nebraska Supreme Court threw out that challenge to the pipeline, but Senator Coons, the White House still says that the president is going to veto a bill once it gets through Congress as it's expected to, that he's going to send it back to the State Department for more months of review. This process has been going on for six years, sir.
SEN. CHRIS COONS, D-Del.: Well, the process has taken a while. And it was put on hold while Nebraska citizens were asserting their rights in Nebraska court, but two things happened on Friday. First the Nebraska court came to a final decision, but second the House took up and passed the Keystone pipeline bill that would take consideration out of the hands of the administration. And I think we should notice that there were enough votes voting against that in the House, that it's clear there will not be a veto override. So, my hope as this comes to the Senate, we will take it up. We will not override the president's coming veto, and then we will move past this issue and towards a real debate about what Americans want. An energy policy that includes growing good jobs, American innovation and infrastructure, energy independence, and that doesn't hurt our environment. We can and should be able to get to that discussion.
WALLACE: All right, Senator Hoeven, why do you think the president keeps dragging this out, as I say, six years and now more review at the State Department? And to get directly to the point that Senator Coons brought up, will you have -- whether you're going to pass it, you're going to send it to the president. Are you going to have the 67 votes in the Senate to override the president's veto?
SEN. JOHN HOEVEN, R-N.D., ENERGY & NATURAL RESOURCES CMTE: Well, first as to what is the president doing, actions speak louder than words. He's delayed this project for more than six years. Americans won World War II in less than six years. So, clearly, he's trying to defeat the project with endless delays, which is why it's important that Congress acts. And as far as getting it past and overriding a veto, we go back to the merits, it's about energy, it's about jobs, it's economic growth, increases GDP $3.4 billion, and it's about national security by achieving energy security.
Look, you have got an overwhelming majority of the public that wants this done. The latest Fox poll on this issue, 68 percent of Americans want the Keystone pipeline built. Every state on the route, seven states have approved it. The only thing holding it up is President Obama.
WALLACE: Let me ask a direct question, though, because we have got -- we've got a lot to cover here, do you at this moment have the 67 votes to override the veto?
HOEVEN: Right now we have got about 63, but we're going to the floor with an open amendment process trying to foster more bipartisanship, getting the Senate to work the way it's supposed to work, so that we can pass this measure and other measures and either override the veto or attach the builder, other legislation that will get 67 votes.
WALLACE: Senator Coons, in 2013, you voted for an amendment approving the pipeline. Now obviously you're against it. Has this become more about politics than it has the merits of the project?
COONS: To be clear, on an up or down vote taking approval of the pipeline out of the current administration process, I voted no. You're referring to a budget process that actually wasn't directly on approving the Keystone pipeline, but the larger point is ...
WALLACE: But let me ...
COONS: I will vote against the Keystone pipeline when it comes in ...
(CROSSTALK)
WALLACE: Let me just ask that question, because it was actually the Hoeven amendment. Was that approving the pipeline?
HOEVEN: Right. That was to move forward and approve the pipeline. And again we have got a bipartisan majority in the Congress, so I'm hopeful that we can have an open amendment process and convince people to look to the merits, get these things done after more than six years.
WALLACE: All right. The issues on Keystone have been debated for years, and just after the midterm elections, President Obama did a pretty good job of laying out the issues. Here they are.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
OBAMA: Is this going to be good for the American people? Is it going to be good for their pocketbook? Is it going to actually create jobs? Is it actually going to reduce gas prices that have been coming down? And is it going to be on net something that doesn't increase climate change that we're going to have to grapple with.
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WALLACE: Senator Coons, he laid it out pretty well. What does Keystone mean in terms of energy, in terms of the environment, in terms of the jobs?
COONS: Keystone means unlocking the Canadian tar sands, some of the dirtiest sources of energy on the planet and allowing those tar sands to go across our American Midwest and then reach the international economy and our environment.
WALLACE: All right. I'm going to stop you there. We'll get to each thing sequentially. Your quick response to that?
HOEVEN: Yeah, we import oil from Venezuela that has as high or higher greenhouse gas emissions. We produce oil in California that has higher greenhouse gas emissions. And so, here we are. Why do you think gas is lower at the pump? It's because we're producing more energy, and we are getting more energy from Canada, not because OPEC gave us a Christmas present. Americans want to produce energy here at home ...
WALLACE: Senator Coons, let me ask you another question about it. Canadian crude is already being shipped in this country by rail or by truck. Doesn't that have even a larger carbon footprint than the pipeline will?
COONS: And folks in my state and across our country are concerned about the safety implications of so many railcars and of building new pipelines, and they should be concerned about the public safety and the emissions implications, but frankly Senator Hoeven keeps talking about what 70 percent of Americans want. 70 percent of Americans in a recent national poll also said they want a carbon tax or they want the EPA to be able to regulate carbon dioxide. What a majority of Americans want is clean energy jobs, improving our environment and growing good construction jobs and a modern energy ...
(CROSSTALK)
WALLACE: Let me interrupt you there.
COONS: We should be able to get there.
WALLACE: Let me interrupt you there, because that's been one of the big issues, is the jobs. There is talk that it's going to create 42,000 jobs and there's talk about that's only temporary jobs, and a lot of those are the coffee shop that the person who's working on the pipeline goes to to get his coffee. How many jobs would this really create?
HOEVEN: Well, the environmental impact statement prepared by the Obama administration says 42,000 jobs are supported by this project. $3.4 billion in GDP increase, $8 billion project, and tell the families that would be getting those paychecks that those aren't good jobs. Construction jobs are good jobs.
WALLACE: Sir?
COONS: Construction jobs are good jobs. And I do want to see us move forward in infrastructure and in energy innovation, but we can do it with a clean energy future. Look, there's 50,000 people whose jobs right now in construction and manufacturing in the wind industry are hanging on whether Congress in a bipartisan way can extend the wind tax credit. There's 400,000 jobs in biofuels. We can make many more good construction and manufacturing jobs with an all of the above energy strategy.
HOEVEN: Chris, I have got to get this in. To have the kind of energy plan, energy security for this country that we want, we need the infrastructure to go with it, and the environmental impact statement done by the Obama administration says no significant environmental impact. I've got to get that in this there
COONS: They reached that conclusion assuming $100 a barrel oil. Oil has now dropped back to its average of the last 20 years. $50 a barrel, different context, different outcome.
WALLACE: Very quickly, in about 30 seconds, what about that, the fact that oil prices are dropping? Does that mean we don't need the pipeline?
HOEVEN: It means that if we want to grow our energy industry in this country and continue to work with Canada, rather than get energy from OPEC, we've got to be competitive. We need the infrastructure. We've got to build that business climate that creates the investment to produce more energy here at home.
WALLACE: All right.
HOEVEN: More important than ever.
WALLACE: All right.
(CROSSTALK)
COONS: About the business climate, but I have to worry about the environmental climate as well.
(CROSSTALK)
COONS: ... in coastal states.
WALLACE: In the few seconds we have left, Senator Coons, excuse me, you were sworn in for a term and congratulations, this week, and you can see there in this video went viral of Joe Biden whispering in your daughter Maggie's ear and then giving her a kiss. A lot of people thought she looked very uncomfortable. What was he saying to her? And I have to ask, because a lot of people been speculating about it, does she think the vice president is creepy?
COONS: No, Chris, she doesn't think the vice president is creepy. He's known my kids their whole lives. Joe was just being thoughtful. He was leaning forward -- I could hear him, he was leaning forward and whispering some encouragement to her about how when he was worn in and his own daughter Ashley was 13, she felt awkward and uncomfortable and he was encouraging her about how to get through day with lots of cameras and lots of folks watching. He was being Joe, he was being thoughtful and he was being sweet.
WALLACE: How did she feel about being such a media star?
COONS: I think she's pleasantly surprised that more people have heard of her than have heard of me.
(LAUGHTER)
WALLACE: Well, there you go.
HOEVEN: Chris, let me give a quick shoutout to the North Dakota State University football team, four-time national champions, go Bisons (ph).
WALLACE: There you go.
HOEVEN: Thank you.
WALLACE: All right. And football is a very big part of this weekend. Senator Coons, Senator Hoeven, thank you both. Thanks for coming in today. We were happy to talk about sports, and videos, and especially to talk about the pipeline. We'll stay on top of that.
Up next, a bumpy week for bipartisanship as the new Congress gets to work. And will the third time be the charm for Mitt Romney? We'll ask our Sunday group.
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