MSNBC "The Rachel Maddow Show" - Transcript: ISIS

Interview

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Joining us now is Senator Chris Murphy of Connecticut. He`s a member
of the Foreign Relations Committee. He`s been calling for a vote in
Congress authorizing strikes against ISIS since they begun last summer.
Senator Murphy, thanks very much for being with us.

SEN. CHRIS MURPHY (D), CONNECTICUT: Sure.

MADDOW: Do we know enough about what`s happening now in Iraq and
Syria to be able to say that the pace of operations is speeding up, that
there is anything more intense about the way that ISIS is being fought
there?

MURPHY: Well, we certainly know that there is significant military
progress on the ground in both Iraq and Syria. You`ve had -- as you`re
reporting -- increased activity just over the last 24 hours. But if you
look back over the last 30 days, you`ve seen progress on the ground, you`ve seen significant progress in pushing ISIL out of Kobani, you`ve seen Mt. Sinjar come back under control of our allies. You`ve started to see some
reports of tribes in western Iraq expelling or beginning to take steps to
expel ISIS. So, that`s all good news.

What is, frankly, less certain is whether there is the political
reform happening on the ground that is actually going to be the end of
ISIS. And that`s part of the reason why Congress has to have a debate
about this, because we can hear reports of military progress, but unless
it`s accompanied by real political reform, economic reform, societal reform
on the ground in places like Iraq, then the stalemate, or a little bit of
momentum on our side doesn`t actually help us in the long run. That`s why
it`s imperative for us to start talking about this in the next several days
and weeks.

We`re at a pivotal moment I think as military success is building, but
we are uncertain of whether there is a component, political success next to
it.

MADDOW: Do you see a meaningful connection between the military fight
against ISIS on the ground in Iraq and Syria and the international threat
posed by ISIS both through propaganda, perhaps through directly organizing foreign attacks and inspiring the kind of fighters we saw strike last week in France?

MURPHY: Well, you know, I clearly think that you`re seeing a flow of
foreign fighters back and forth into Syria and Iraq that`s presenting real
problems and threats to our allies in Europe and potentially here to the
United States.

But I think it is important just to recognize that the individuals who
carried out these attacks in Paris were originally radicalized not by ISIS
but in coordination against the United States` invasion and occupation of
Iraq. That`s what initially brought them into this fight. And it`s worth
repeating that those who would call for another insertion of U.S. ground
troops to fight ISIS would be essentially repeating the very mistake that
radicalized thousands of Muslims all across country during our 10-year
occupation of that country.

So, I certainly think ISIS poses a threat to the United States and our
allies, but we`re living with a decade-long mistake in Iraq that had
radicalized thousands already no matter whether or not is was present in
that region.

MADDOW: Do you think that there will be a vote in this Congress --
sometime in this Congress about authorizing what we`re doing in Iraq and
Syria and, thereby, for the first time really substantively debating it?

MURPHY: I don`t know. We took a vote in the Foreign Relations
Committee the end of last Congress. We passed a limited authorization that
did not allow for a ground troop presence in the fight, attempted to put
some geographic restrictions on it.

But you don`t see any hustle right now in the new Republican Senate
majority to bring an authorization vote for the Congress. I think Senator
Corker, who is the new chairman of the Foreign Relations Committee is
committed, but it certainly doesn`t like he`s going to spend the first few
weeks working towards it.

Let`s be clear: to many of us, this is an unauthorized extra-
constitutional conflict right now. We`re outside the War Powers Act
authorization. I do not believe and many others do not believe that there
is legal justification for proceeding without a congressional vote.

So, every day that we are not debating this is a day that we are
advocating our responsibility as members of Congress.

MADDOW: Senator Chris Murphy of Connecticut. Thank you very much for
your take on this, sir. Thank you. Appreciate it.

MURPHY: Thanks, Rachel.

MADDOW: All right. We`ll be right back. Stay with us.

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