MSNBC "The Ed Show" - Transcript: State of the Union

Interview

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SCHULTZ: Let me bring in Senator Bernie Sanders of Vermont and also Congressman Chris Van Hollen of Maryland, gentlemen great to have both of you with tonight.

I love the President`s focus tonight, Senator you first, you`ve talked
about it all the time and of course Congressman you have just put out a
proposal on what to do to raise the middle class and opportunity for all.
What can the President accomplish tonight Senator?

SEN. BERNIE SANDERS, (I) VERMONT: Well what he can accomplish is making the very important point, that despite huge Republican obstructionism the economy today is much, much better than it was six years ago. But Ed, what he is also got to make clear is that, it is no where near where we need to be, real (ph) unemployment 11 percent, highest rate of childhood poverty in the industrialized world, huge gap between the very rich and everybody else.

And what he`s got to do is present a program to create millions of jobs to
deal with income and wealth inequality and let the Republicans say no. Let
them go back to their usual formula of more tax breaks to billionaires,
cutting social security and Medicare and let the people decide.

SCHULTZ: Senator what`s your response to (inaudible) leadership respond
over the President tonight? And I think it`s important because they now
have both chambers, this is their legislative opportunity.

SANDERS: I think what the tactic is, is to trivialize what the President
is saying. It is so trivial, it is so unemployment -- unimportant that
we`re not even bringing forward our leadership to respond.

SCHULTZ: Chris Van Hollen, your proposal and what you`ve laid out last
week is going to parallel what the President is going to talk about
tonight, crucial to the middle class, what`s the message here tonight, you
think?

REP. CHRIS VAN HOLLEN, (D) MARYLAND: Well, the message is twofold. First, as Bernie indicated that it is important to recognize that the December
jobs reported -- have lots of good news in it, in terms of the recovery.
And I should say that not a single Republican in the House voted to help
make that recovery possible.

It also had this wage issue, these flat wages, frozen paychecks, that`s
where the President`s focus because we need an economy that works for all
Americans and we need to incentivice higher paychecks and we also need to
make sure that folks in the middle who were being squeezed are able to keep
a little bit more of their paychecks and that`s what the President said...

SCHULTZ: It`s well-documented what the senator from Iowa did in her
campaign and the way she badmouth the President, said she was against him on every issue, Twitted that out at one time. What`s your reaction to the Republicans putting Joni Ernst up to respond to the President? It`s almost like that they`re not serious about wanting to work with the President again.

VAN HOLLEN: Well that is what, that`s the signal it sends, because ever
since the election, the Republican leader in the Senate, Mitch McConnel has
said he wants to find practical common sense steps that he can take to work
with the President. What he is saying tonight, by picking this particular
person to respond is he was just kidding, he didn`t mean it, because as we
talked about, her whole campaign was run, on simply trying to rollback the
progress that we`ve made over the last four years.

So, what he it says to me is Senator McConnell really wasn`t serious when
he said he want to work together. If he were serious, he would have, you
know, may be put himself forward as the Republican leader. Don`t we want
to hear what the Republican stand for? Is this the person who expresses
what Republican stand for? I don`t know.

SCHULTZ: Senator, the White House is saying today that they feel like
they`re out of the crisis zone for the economy. That this is in sorts, and
these are my words not theirs, that it is going to be somewhat of a victory
lap because the Republicans have had no hand in this recovery whatsoever.
58 months of private sector job growth has nothing to shake your head at,
you got 10 million jobs. You`ve got the recovery of the automobile
industry. But the next level, is it important for the Republicans to
engage for the next two years in the economy if we`re going to continue
this growth?

SANDERS: Absolutely it is. Absolutely it is. So we`re beginning to see a
few signs of that. For example, everybody in America knows that the $7.25
minimum wage is a starvation wage. We have got to raise the minimum wage.

Right now Ed, people are working as "supervisors" are working 60 hours a
week and making $25,000 a year, not getting any overtime. Clearly, we`ve
got to change that as well.

And clearly we need to rebuild a crumbling infrastructure and we need to
get rid off, and I know Chris has worked hard on this, some of this
outrageous loopholes that enable enormously profitable corporations to pay
nothing in taxes.

SCHULTZ: If the Congress does not work with this President, what`s the
economic outlook? Right now, America has one of the better economies
that`s out there in the globe right now. And the President is now siding
with the Republicans on the Trans-Pacific Partnership and there are some
Democrats who are for it as well.

Congressman, how is the President going to make the case for the middle
class and then turn around and support a trade deal that many people who
opposed and say it`s definitely going to be depress wages and it`s going to
gut American jobs. That`s a tough balancing act.

VAN HOLLEN: I now want to get that, let me just start with your first
point which is our economy compared to what out European partner`s
economies look like right now. Because Republicans wanted to practice the
austerity approach that they took in Europe, right? And we see where that
got Europe. We have a much stronger economy, now look.

The President is going to have to make the case for how a trade agreement
can in fact help American workers. And I hope every member of Congress
when they look at any agreement, they should look at it with two standards
in mind. How is it going to help the American worker, how it`s going to
help the American economy. If they can`t meet those tests, then we
shouldn`t support it.

There`s another big piece to it, which is the issue of currency
manipulation which -- as I understand right now is not really a part of
this discussion, but it`s something that really has put American workers
back on their heels because other countries rely (ph) to change their
currency in a way that makes it harder for us to export.

SCHULTZ: Can the Democrats stop this trade deal? And there are some
Republicans who are against it as well. The Tea Partiers are concerned
about the sovereignty issue about who is going to be making some rules if
there are any irregularities, the legalities that are going to be
challenged, it`s not going to be done by American lawmakers.

VAN HOLLEN: Yeah.

SCHULTZ: So can it be stopped?

VAN HOLLEN: Look, I think Ed, that people are going to see what the
President is going to present and then people are going to decide exactly
how to move forward. But I couldn`t agree with you more, the focus of
tonight`s speech -- and I don`t know how much the President is going to
talk about trade tonight. I hope the focus of his speech tonight is on the
things that we are talking about here, helping the middle class, making
sure we have a tax system, that doesn`t help people who make money off of
money more than it helps people who make money off of hard work and that`s going to be...

SCHULTZ: Senator, do you agree with what the President is trying to do on
this tax plan?

SANDERS: Well I think it`s a great step forward. We would maybe take it a
little bit differently but basically what he is saying when it richest
people are getting richer, you know what? They`re going to have to stop
paying their fair share of taxes and help the middle class. In term of
trade, I respectfully disagree with the President, I think NAFTA, CAFTA
(inaudible) normal trade relations with China have been a disaster loss of
jobs, raised to the bottom, I don`t think we should go forward with TPP.

SCHULTZ: 45 percent of the American people now say the economy is in
pretty good shape, that`s the best number in a decade. I kind of feel like
the President has amended his back tonight. He will speak with more
credibility on the economy than the obstructors that he`s going to be
facing. But here`s what I think liberals want out of the President
tonight. They want the President to remind the Republicans that they
haven`t had a hand in this. Congressman, is it asking too much to be that
direct?

VAN HOLLEN: I think that the President will talk about all the good news.
I`m not sure he will say what you`re asking tonight so let`s tell them
right now. Not a single Republican in the House, not one voted for the
economic recovery bill. Not one voted for a Wall Street reform, meaning
they were perfectly happy to leave it where tax payers we`re on the hook
for the gambling on Wall Street. That was the Republican record. And I
hope the President, you know, somehow says it tonight, I`m not sure.

SCHULTZ: Congressman Chris Van Hollen, Senator Bernie Sanders, gentlemen thanks so much for your time tonight. I appreciate you coming in.

VAN HOLLEN: Thank you.

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