CNN "The Lead with Jake Tapper" - Transcript: North Korea Cyber Attack

Interview

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Republican Congressman Michael McCaul, chair of the Homeland Security Committee in the House, is with us live from Austin, Texas.

Congressman McCaul, thanks for being here.

REP. MICHAEL MCCAUL (R-TX), CHAIRMAN, HOMELAND SECURITY COMMITTEE: Thanks, Jake.

TAPPER: So, the movie has been pulled. Were Americans ever really in any real danger, though?

MCCAUL: Well, according to the Department of Homeland Security and FBI, the 9/11-style threat didn't turn out to really be credible. I sort of agree with you that pulling the movie sort of caves into what I consider to be a terrorist threat. Certainly, it's a cyberterrorism event that needs a proportionate response and I think that's what's being debated right now.

With respect to how do we protect ourselves from these attacks, I passed a bill last day of the Congress that was signed into law today by the president that will better protect our critical infrastructures, we call 'em, where we can share these malicious codes, this threat information, with the private sector, and private sector in turn with the federal government. I think that's going to go a long ways to protecting this nation from a future terrorist attack.

But any time you give in to them, you empower them. And I'm concerned we're going to see more of these types of threats based upon political and free speech.

TAPER: I think -- I believe it's in Texas, there was a movie theater that was going to show -- instead of "The Interview", they were going to show "Team America: World Police" from 10 years ago, a movie that mocks Kim Jong-un's father, Kim Jong-il, and Paramount pulled the movie. So, it's not just Sony.

What do you make of these decisions being made by studios? Obviously, they are concerned that if anything happens, they will be held liable and accused of putting profits before people.

MCCAUL: Yes. It's the Alamo Drafthouse here in Austin.

I would say that, you know, look, Sony and private movie theaters are free to make any choices that they think are necessary, that they deem aren't appropriate. However, I do think by pulling the movies they gave the North Koreans -- and let's be honest where this threat came from -- I think U.S. officials have reported that this came from North Korea, this Bureau 121.

And what they effectively did was give them a victory, and gave them precisely what they want to achieve, and that is the pulling down of this movie. And I hope at some point, this movie will be shown, and perhaps the intrigue built over it will make it more of a money maker. I don't know. But I think pulling it gave them exactly what they wanted.

TAPPER: And I guess the converse argument, when I was talking to a Hollywood friend yesterday, is that people were -- the people that control the theaters and the people who made the movie were so afraid that if anything happened, even something not done by the North Koreans, just a lone wolf or a copycat or whatever, that they would then be attacked by many of the same people who are criticizing them now for caving, for -- you know, somebody said they should change their name to "Neville Chamberlain Pictures".

MCCAUL: Well, I can understand that, particularly around the Christmas holidays. That is a date we're concerned with in the counterterrorism business. But I can see maybe a cooling off period and then showing the movie at a later date.

But I think it's also important that the administration in terms of attribution, that means tracing back the attack where it came from. Clearly, I believe this came from North Korea, a state sponsor of cyberterrorism. I think it's important that the administration respond under the military doctrine of proportionate response. I know they are trying to calculate that as we speak.

But I think these economic sanctions that have been lifted against North Korea, we need to revisit those sanctions and we need to have a response to this because any time a state sponsor has an act of cyberterrorism against the United States and in our way of life, if there's no retaliation or no response, then there's no deterrent value or no deterrent effect. And I think that's why it's so important that we have a response to this.

TAPPER: I hear what you're saying in terms of the response. I wonder, however, if that then leads to an escalating cyberwar between the United States and North Korea, that is, of course, the concern that we're hearing from Obama administration officials.

MCCAUL: Well, I understand that as well but the fact is we live in a dangerous cyberwarfare now.

It's kind of a new frontier, if you will, Jake, kind of the Wild West. We've been hit by Iran, our financial sector, already. There have been attacks by Russia and China, espionage, stealing things.

And we need to kind of calculate what is an act of warfare in the cyberspace, and what is the appropriate retaliation in the act of a cyberwarfare. And I don't think that's clear right now. I think the rules of the game and the rules of warfare are not clear right now and something going into this next frontier we need to more clearly define.

TAPPER: Congressman Michael McCaul, thank you so much. Happy holidays, sir.

MCCAUL: You, too, Jake. Thanks so much.

TAPPER: White sand beaches, sunny skies, human rights abuses. It could soon be your dream vacation, Cuba. The president pushing to ease travel restrictions there, but don't call your travel agent just yet.

Plus, a network of cyberhackers positioned around the world. One man says North Korea is behind the cryptic operation. You just heard Congressman McCaul say the same thing. Its claims of a so-called "Bureau 121", next.

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