NBC "Meet the Press" - Transcript: CIA Detention and Interrogation Report
Interview
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CHUCK TODD:
And welcome back, more on the story that has dominated the news this week, the Senate, what the Democrats call the torture report. I'm joined now by Senator Ron Wyden. He's a Democrat from Oregon, member of the Senate Intelligence Committee and somebody who, frankly, was pushing your leader, Senator Dianne Feinstein to get this report done and be made public. Senator Wyden, welcome back to Meet The Press.
RON WYDEN:
Thank you.
CHUCK TODD:
First, let me get your reaction to Vice President Cheney who obviously has not a lot of respect for this report. What do you say?
RON WYDEN:
First of all, with respect to waterboarding and the Vice President is obviously comfortable with it, I consider it to be torture. And just to correct the record, when the Japanese were prosecuted for using it against our guys in World War II, it was at the Tokyo trials. So I think it's important to set the record straight.
CHUCK TODD:
Well, let me ask you though, he says this thing is partisan. That has been some of the criticism even from folks that agree with some of the conclusions who say, "You know what though, you have no chance to see real reform at the C.I.A. because the C.I.A. can now easily dismiss this as a partisan report."
RON WYDEN:
Facts aren't partisan, Chuck. We reviewed six million pages of documents, the full report has 38,000 footnotes. And what we've thought to do was very careful. And that is to take the statements the C.I.A. made to the American people, made to the Congress, made to the Justice Department, made to the president, and we compared it to their own internal communications in real time. There are a mountain of contradictions.
CHUCK TODD:
I understand that you use nothing but C.I.A. material, C.I.A. provided material. But no interviews. The C.I.A. says Director Brennan said that he would have been pleased to talk to Senate Investigators. That plenty of C.I.A. agents were even talking to the Justice Department. Why didn't you take up the C.I.A.? I know for a while they weren't giving you access. But eventually they said they were going to give you and decided not to take them up on it. Why?
RON WYDEN:
It's a little more complicated than that. The report and the Justice Department inquiry went on at the same time. So we weren't able to interview the C.I.A. So we thought that it was important to get materials that can be verified and documented.
So we looked at the communications that C.I.A. officers were making in real time about torture. Now during that period, everybody knew that we were having this inquiry and certainly none of the people writing op-eds have come forward and said, "Oh, we would have liked to be interviewed at that time." Suffice it to say, I'll speak for myself and my colleagues, we would be happy to have talked to them.
CHUCK TODD:
Do you think there should be criminal prosecutions?
RON WYDEN:
The Justice Department has been clear with respect to that there are not going to be. I hope they'll review the new facts. But I--
CHUCK TODD:
You want them to change their mind?
RON WYDEN:
--I want them to review the new facts. But what I'm especially troubled by is John Brennan on Thursday really opened the door to the possibility of torture being used again. And that's why it's so important that our report come out. And what I intend to do with my colleagues right when we come back is I intend to introduce legislation to make it clear, for example, that if torture is used in the future there would be a basis to prosecute.
CHUCK TODD:
Is Director Brennan fit to serve the C.I.A.?
RON WYDEN:
Director Brennan, particularly on Thursday, said some important things and also left out some things that were important. For example, he indicated that he would no longer be using the terms with respect to torture that the information would be otherwise unavailable.
That's a real vindication of the committee because we showed that we were able to find Bin Laden, find KSM without torture. So that would good. What I was troubled also about was that he undercut the Panetta Review. The Panetta Review really agreed with what the committee found.
CHUCK TODD:
But I go back, Director Brennan, you're comfortable with him running the C.I.A.?
RON WYDEN:
Not at this point.
CHUCK TODD:
Do you think the president should fire him?
RON WYDEN:
I want to give him the chance to end this culture of denial, to deal with the misrepresentations. If he doesn't do that we're going to go have get somebody who will.
CHUCK TODD:
Is there photographs in your reports that you guys redacted?
RON WYDEN:
I'm not going to get into what was redacted. I lost some battles with respect to redactions. But I think the report does tell an important story, it tells it accurately. And it is a particularly timely report now given the fact that John Brennan really opened the door to the possibility of torture. Again, when he was asked, in effect, what he thought and he said, "That's for future times."
CHUCK TODD:
Is there more of this report that you think should be released?
RON WYDEN:
I would like to see the entire report--
CHUCK TODD:
--six thousand --
(OVERTALK)
RON WYDEN:
--declassified.
CHUCK TODD:
All right, Senator Ron Wyden, Democrat from Oregon, thanks for sharing your view.
RON WYDEN:
Thank you.
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