CNN "Wolf" - Transcript: CIA Interrogation Program

Interview

WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: I want to bring in Representative Adam Schiff. He's a Democrat from California. He's a member of the House Permanent Select Committee on Intelligence.

Do you believe, like some of your Democrat colleagues in the Senate, like Mark Udall of Colorado for example, Congressman Schiff, that John Brennan, the CIA director, should go?

REP. ADAM SCHIFF, D-CALIFORNIA: I'm not prepared to go as far as Mark Udall. I think it's going to be the president's decision. If president still has confidence in the director, and I think he does, if the director is going to implement the president's policies against torture, I think the president will keep him as the CIA director.

But I'll tell you what I would like to hear the director say today when he talks to the staff at the agency, and that is, look, these procedures that we did, these enhanced interrogations did amount to torture. We should not have done it. That was a mistake. Even if we were given legal opinions that said it was permitted, that was still a mistake. And what's more, we went beyond what the legal opinions said and that compounded the mistake.

But I think the director also should make a very important point and that is, this conclusion of the Senate that the interrogations did not produce valuable intelligence, that's the least important conclusion of the report. We shouldn't be doing it no matter what the efficacy of it. And that's a point I would like to hear the director make.

BLITZER: What happens if it saves American lives? That's the argument you'll hear. I heard it yesterday from Alberto Gonzales. I heard it from the former CIA director general, Michael Hayden, and so many others who supported these harsh interrogation techniques. They say, remember, the context, this is after 9/11, people were afraid there could be another 9/11 or even worse, a nuclear bomb coming to New York City. And as a result, they justified these harsh techniques.

So let me play a little clip. This is the former CIA director, General Michael Hayden. Listen to this, Congressman.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GEN. MICHAEL HAYDEN, FORMER CIA DIRECTOR: There are a lot of things that I wish didn't happen. And fundamentally, Wolf, at the end of the day, I can't in my heart of hearts wish that we didn't have to do this. But we did have a duty.

BLITZER: And you believe that lives were saved as a result of this.

HAYDEN: Look, anybody who has touched this program of either political party under either administration believes that to be true.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: All right. Go ahead, Congressman Schiff. You want to respond to General Hayden?

SCHIFF: Well, look, I think anyone who was involved in this has to believe that's true, but the reality is there's simply no way to prove and there'll never be a way to prove that you can't get the same or better information without the use of those kind of enhanced interrogation procedures or torture. And I would also say that regardless of its efficacy which will never be proven it's just the wrong thing to do. It is contrary to all our values.

And I think it's deeply destructive of our democracy. The most difficult fight we're in with al Qaeda is not the military one, it's the ideological one. And I think this has been a real setback, not the release of the report which I congratulate the courage of our Senator Feinstein, but rather the fax that these events took place at all, is a real body blow in the ideological war that we're in, Wolf.

BLITZER: Congressman Schiff, thanks very much for joining us.

SCHIFF: Thank you.

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