CNN "The Lead with Jake Tapper" - Transcript: Alan Gross

Interview

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TAPPER: Let's bring in someone with a very different perspective, Democratic Congressman from Maryland Chris Van Hollen, who made the trip to Cuba to bring back Alan Gross. He was also part of a U.S. congressional delegation that met with Cuban President Raul Castro to discuss the Gross case last year.

Congressman, thanks for joining us.

REP. CHRIS VAN HOLLEN (D), MARYLAND: Good to be with you.

TAPPER: Before we get to the policy, you were on the plane to go and get him. At what point were you confident, oh, my God, we are actually going to pull this off, or were you just nervous the whole time that it was just going to be ruined?

VAN HOLLEN: Well, I have been very nervous over the last couple days that something would go wrong, Jake, because so many different pieces had to come together to make this happen.

We have been working for five years to try and get Alan Gross' release. His wife, Judy, has spent every day in this effort. And so, you know, it ain't over until it's over. It really wasn't until after we walked out of the building onto the tarmac in Havana, climbed onto the president's airplane heading home that I was really able to breathe a sigh of relief. And I'm sure that's true for Alan and his wife.

TAPPER: He showed remarkable composure. I was at the press conference he had earlier today.

VAN HOLLEN: Yes.

TAPPER: But I have to ask you about the policy, sir, because Cuba is the most restrictive country in the Western Hemisphere. They jail dissident bloggers. They jail political protesters.

The Castros have persecuted gays and lesbians for decades. How do you respond to the charge that what the president announced today is basically appeasement for a bad, bad regime?

VAN HOLLEN: Well, what the president announced today is not for the Cuban government or regime.

It's actually to change our strategy to Cuba, which has been a total failure over 55 years. We heard Senator Rubio talk about the fact that the embargo and sanctions provided leverage for change in Cuba. Show me the change. The reality is that the Castro brothers have now survived more than eight U.S. presidents and the policy of isolation has actually helped sustain this regime.

So I believe and Alan Gross believes, after spending five years in Cuban prison, that the way actually to provide the Cuban people with more opportunity is to have more engagement, more communication, more travel, more trade. That's the way to open up a society, not to try and create a wall, which clearly has not accomplished our own stated goals.

TAPPER: Right. But what -- let's talk about the swap, though. Your fellow Democrat Senator Bob Menendez says -- quote -- "Trading Mr. Gross for three convicted criminals sets an extremely dangerous precedent. It invites dictatorial and rogue regimes to use Americans serving overseas as bargaining chips." He added that the policy shift is misguided.

Is he wrong?

VAN HOLLEN: Actually, the prisoner swap was the Cuban three...

TAPPER: Right.

VAN HOLLEN: ... for a Cuban national who was a U.S. intelligence asset who had provided the United States national security agencies with very important information about Cuban spies operating within the United States government.

What sends a really bad signal is when we leave the people who help us to rot in jail for their entire life. This guy was -- had already served 25 to 30 years in a Cuban jail. And he was going to die in a Cuban jail. What kind of signal does that send, Jake, to people who were hoping to help us and help our national security overseas? So that was the swap.

Alan Gross was a contractor. He wasn't part of the spy swap.

TAPPER: Right.

VAN HOLLEN: And we were able to bring him home. That is a good thing, and Alan Gross is not only thrilled to be free and home. He is also a believer that the president's new policy will be good for the Cuban people. Not for the Cuban regime, for the Cuban people.

TAPPER: Right. Well, we're all glad that Alan Gross is home and we are glad this intelligence asset is safe, as well.

Congressman Van Hollen, thank you so much.

VAN HOLLEN: Thank you.

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