CNN "The Situation Room" - Transcript: Ferguson, Missouri

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Let's talk about all of this and more with Democratic Congressman Emanuel Cleaver of Missouri.

Congressman, thanks very much for joining us.

Do you think it's reasonable that there's now a formal investigation underway into the possibility that Michael Brown's stepfather, Louis Head, incited riots immediately following that grand jury announcement?

REP. EMANUEL CLEAVER (D), MISSOURI: Well, what Mr. Head said was unfortunate. And I think that certainly he has to be held responsible for what he said.

But look, there's a larger issue here. And it is race relations in this country. I don't think that now trying to prosecute the stepfather of Michael Brown is going to be helpful. And I don't think his words incited the riot.

In fact, I continue to hear people say the demonstrators began the riot. That is not true.

I've been in Ferguson with the demonstrators. Many of them have gone through nonviolent training. There were hoodlums who came and did all of the destruction and many of the people who had gone through the training were actually out there trying to stop them. And many of those people lived in other cities.

There were -- on one occasion, the police department arrested the same person from Los Angeles two consecutive nights.

So we've got a situation that I think is far bigger than Ferguson, far bigger than Mr. Head or Officer Wilson.

This is a dramatic revelation that we have not moved as far as we thought in terms of race relations. And these are the best of times and the worst of times, to quote the opening lines of "A Tale of Two Cities." And we've got to do something about it that exceeds just focusing on Ferguson.

BLITZER: Wouldn't it be helpful, though, if Mr. Head, the stepfather, apologized, expressed some remorse, said he was simply acting out of his frustration, his anger, he really didn't mean what came out of his mouth?

CLEAVER: It was my understanding that he has already done that, that he's already apologized.

And I think that, what is the purpose of now trying to indict this man?

I mean there is no socio-benefit, no political benefit. And all it's going to do is create a whole new level of friction, racial friction, not just in Ferguson, but around the country. And it would seem to me that at a time like this, people of goodwill in this country will say, look, we thought we were further along, but we're not. So -- so let's work on that. Let's deal with those issues instead of focusing on the things that can separate us and divide us racially.

We have made monumental progress in race relations. But I've got to tell you that right now, race relations -- the movement of race relations in a better spot has stalled. We're not moving right now.

BLITZER: As you know, four members of the Congressional Black Caucus -- I think you're the immediate past chair of the Congressional Black Caucus -- they held up their hands symbolically during remarks on the floor of the House of Representatives earlier today, a clear reference to the ongoing Michael Brown protests.

And you were on the floor when it happened. I don't think you were one of the four who did so.

What did you think of those actions?

CLEAVER: Well, I've spoken to all four of the individuals who, they were really trying to make a statement about the fact that there is some problem -- there are problems with black relations with police departments. They were not saying that they saw Michael Brown's hands in the air or anything else.

This has become a symbol -- raising your hands has become a symbol in many African-American communities, and, frankly, white communities, as well, around the country, for people who believe that there needs to be some kind of new look at and reform of police relations with communities of color.

That's all it was. And I think, you know, some people on the right are trying to make that into some kind of Black Panther statement. And it was not. It was a symbol of their belief that something has to be done. And, frankly, you're going to see a lot of that all around the country, the same thing with the Rams. They were not saying Michael Brown was angelic. They were saying, look, there's a problem here and we need to have it addressed.

BLITZER: But you didn't raise your hands, right?

CLEAVER: I did not raise my hands. But, you know, the issue is far more significant than the raising of hands or not raising of the hands. And, no, I did not do that.

But I do believe that there are African-Americans who are saying, look, you may not agree with us, but try to feel the pain. It's called empathy in theology. You know, feel the pain. I mean we're hurting.

We have -- there are many young African-American men that are being shot and some of them are African-American men that were doing wrong. I mean they were in

That we can't justify.

But there were a number of them unarmed and they're saying all around the country that needs to stop. We need to figure out how to stop those senseless killings.

BLITZER: Congressman, I want you to stand by. I have more questions to ask you. We'll take a quick break.

Much more with Congressman Emanuel Cleaver from Missouri when we come back.

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BLITZER: We're following the new protests in the Ferguson, Missouri, area. There's been a massive student walkout more than a week after riots rocked the city following the grand jury decision not to charge the former police officer, Darren Wilson, in the death of Michael Brown.

We're back with Democratic Congressman Emanuel Cleaver of Missouri.

Congressman, I think you're with the president as far as military- style equipment from the Pentagon being provided to local law enforcement. But you don't like the heavy military equipment, but we're told that only about 4 percent of that equipment is really military grade, which the Pentagon provides and the Pentagon -- and the president made clear yesterday will continue to be delivered. Is this really a big problem?

CLEAVER: It is. Congressman Lacy Clay and I flew back from Ferguson -- from St. Louis, actually, with the attorney general and went immediately to the Pentagon to meet with Secretary Hagel. And we talked -- we spoke with him about the use of military equipment in what's called the 1033 program and told him that it -- that what -- they made Ferguson look like Fallujah. And Americans, black and white, were all alarmed when you see the MRAPs moving down the street and people sitting on top of military-style vehicles with machine guns.

I think that we need to allow surplus military equipment to go to New York, to Boston and Philadelphia, and cities that should -- that very well might be targeted by terrorists. We need to make that they can have everything they can possibly use to combat terrorism.

But, you know, bringing that kind of equipment into Waxahachie, Texas, where I was born, or Ferguson, it makes no sense. And so I think we've got to redesign that program to make sure that communities that receive the equipment are able to finance the training on that equipment. To just tell people to get up and use that equipment, I think, is foolish, and it's not, I think, in the -- in harmony with the will of the American public.

BLITZER: As you know, and we've been reporting, Darren Wilson, the police officer, is -- ex-police officer, I should say, he's now resigned from the Ferguson Police Force. He is receiving security protection from St. Louis area police officers who are volunteering their off-duty time to provide security for him. Is that OK with you?

CLEAVER: Absolutely. And anybody who is caught, if they can trace anything back to any individuals who's threatening that man's life, they need to be jailed. And if they will allow me, I'll lock him or her up for doing that. That is just not to be tolerated in this country.

And I think that every decent American believes the same thing. You don't threaten people. You don't decide that you're going to take things into your own hands and mete out justice as you see it.

So I think the police are doing the right thing. I was mayor of Kansas City. I had police protection. And I trusted the police with my life and the life of my wife and my children. And so I think that it's -- it's foolish to even believe that the police forces around the country, that they are evil somehow. That's not the case.

And we have some people who I think may be psychologically in a spot where they may not be good police officers, but to condemn the police departments around the country, I think is foolish.

BLITZER: Should the president visit Ferguson?

CLEAVER: No, absolutely not. The president was elected to be the leader of the free world. He was not elected to be the head of the NAACP or the Southern Christian Leadership Conference or the Urban League. There are people who get up every morning with the job of dealing with civil rights matters.

And then if a person goes to Ferguson, we've created a whole other controversy. And we have enough; we're trading new controversy every day. For every action, there is an opposite and equal reaction. Newton's third law of physics.

And so we need to stop this action/reaction, because I think it's doing enormous damage, maybe irreparable damage to our ability to live together in this country at a very sensitive time when we have enemies abroad who would like to do damage to us.

BLITZER: Emanuel Cleaver is the Democratic congressman from Missouri. Thanks very much, Congressman, for joining us.

CLEAVER: Good to be with you.

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