CNN Crossfire - Transcript
CNN Crossfire - Transcript
Monday, May 9, 2005
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NOVAK: Welcome back to CROSSFIRE. All Republicans want is an up-or-down vote on judicial nominees. Are Democrats willing to let the Senate grind to a halt rather than permit majority rule? In the CROSSFIRE today, two senators join us from Capitol Hill: Charles Schumer, Democrat of New York, Kay Bailey Hutchinson, Republican from Texas.
Reverend Al?
SHARPTON: Senator Hutchinson, usually when there are extreme statements made by Democrats, Democrats are called on to denounce those statements. Recently, Pat Robertson said that "Looking over the course of the last 100 years, I think the gradual erosion of consensus that has held the country today is probably more serious than a few bearded terrorists who fly into buildings." Wouldn't you think that is an extreme statement? And would you denounce him and call on other Republican leaders to denounce such an extreme statement?
SEN. KAY BAILEY HUTCHINSON (R), TEXAS: Reverend Sharpton, I am not familiar with what was said or the context in which it was said. I think all of us agree that it is very important for us to prosecute the war on terror. But, also, I think it is very important that President Bush get his nominees through in the Circuit Courts. And frankly, Reverend Sharpton, President Bush has had fewer of his Circuit Court nominees confirmed than any judge in the history of America. And I think that is a major constitutional issue.
SHARPTON: But you wouldn't compare the Democrats questioning and using Senate types of strategies to deal with these judges, you wouldn't compare that as on the same level of terrorists flying planes into buildings killing innocent Americans, would you?
HUTCHINSON: I think the war on terror certainly is the most overriding issue that we have in Congress today, and certainly for the president. We're all tuned in to that. But I also believe that our constitutional balance of power is at stake and the president getting an up-or-down vote on his nominees for the Circuit Court bench. And he's lost almost 30 percent of his nominees. And that's just not right. We ought to be able to talk about them. We want to be able to work with the Democrats to give them a chance to raise their concerns. But I happen to know that Priscilla Owen, who was nominated four years ago today-four years ago today, is one of the most qualified people that has ever been put forward. She has the unanimous well qualified rating, the highest given by the American Bar Association. She's been endorsed by two of the Democrats who served on the supreme court with her. She just has bipartisan support where people know her best, in Texas. And I think she deserved a vote after really taking a lot of hits that are unwarranted for four years by the United States Senate.
NOVAK: Senator Schumer, there was a story in the "Roll Call" newspaper on Capitol Hill this morning by reporter Paul Kane (ph) on a deal that's being cut, brokered by Republican Trent Lott and Democrat Ben Nelson. And the way I read it, they would take three of the president's judges who have been filibusters and throw them down the pit-that's the pound of flesh-and the four other judges would be confirmed. But what was the interesting thing is that all future nominations, these six Democrats who are agreeing to this, would agree to vote for cloture to end filibuster except in, quote, in extreme circumstances. What do you think of deal, sir?
SEN. CHARLES SCHUMER (D), NEW YORK: Well, obviously it depends on a bunch of different things. First, I don't think the six Democrats have agreed to anything, as best I have talked about, nor have the six Republicans who are negotiating. There are discussions going on. I think there's a real feeling, let's try to avoid this nuclear option because it would dramatically change the way the Senate functions and end checks and balances. But the whole idea of this is, what is an extreme circumstance? Is a judge nominee who thinks, for instance, that the New Deal is a socialist revolution and doesn't believe in any zoning laws or any child labor laws, that they are all unconstitutional, is that extreme?
So it depends how you define extreme. I believe that of the 215 judges, the 10 that we've blocked are very extreme in different ways.
NOVAK: Senators, you think --
SCHUMER: And so it depends how you define extreme.
NOVAK: I want to ask you how you define it. Do you define Antonin Scalia, U.S. Supreme Court justice, who was confirmed by a unanimous vote of the U.S. Senate several years ago, could be appointed chief justice by-nominated for chief justice by President Bush, do you consider him extreme?
SCHUMER: Well, on some issues, he is extreme and on others he isn't. But the whole point is, there has to be some balance in the courts. I've always felt that, for instance, a Supreme Court with one Scalia and one Brennan, it would be a very interesting and good Supreme Court. A Supreme Court with five Scalias or five Brennans, one at the far right, one at the far left, would not be a good Supreme Court-and that's because, Bob, judges should make law-should interpret law, not make it. And when you get idealogues, people who are so passionate that they are right and everyone else is wrong and they tend to be at the extremes, you get judges who want to make law.
SHARPTON: Senator Hutchinson, isn't it true though that Republicans have used their options to deal with blocking judges-not voting them out of committee, even one Supreme Court justice was stalled. Really does the Republicans have the moral authority to now talk about Democrats not exercising an option when, in fact, historically that has happened under Bill Clinton and others where judges were blocked even in committee?
HUTCHINSON: Well, Reverend Sharpton, of course, the committee always operates by a majority rule. That is what happens in committees. And legislation is blocked in committees all the time. But then you are able to have an amendment process on the floor that allows you to have the will of the Senate. The problem here is that we have not had a majority rule in the Senate on these Circuit Court judges. One-third, almost one-third of the Circuit Court judges have been blocked. And that's the major source of judges just below the office of the Supreme Court.
SHARPTON: Well, haven't Republicans blocked judges?
SCHUMER: reverend, let me chime in here, though.
NOVAK: Okay, we have to-no, we'll have to take a break.
SCHUMER: In the Judiciary Committee-sorry, we're getting a lot of feedback on the ear pieces here. I couldn't hear you, Bob.
NOVAK: We're going to have to take a break, Senator.
Next, is it appropriate to call the president of the United States a loser? We'll tell you which party leader doesn't seem to think so. And Wolf Blitzer will have the latest on a major U.S. military offensive in the Anbar region of Iraq, just ahead.
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5.6.09
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WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: I'm Wolf Blitzer in Washington. Coming up at the top of the hour-a major U.S. military offensive underway right now in Iraq near the Syrian border. U.S. military officials say scores of insurgents already have been killed.
Is sexual orientation a choice or is it determined by biology? Results of a new medical research study about to be released only minutes from now. We'll have an exclusive interview with the study's author.
And 60 years after the end of World War II, we'll talk with a veteran who had to make an agonizing choice. All those stories and much more only minutes away on WOLF BLITZER REPORTS. Now back to "CROSSFIRE."
NOVAK: Welcome back to "CROSSFIRE" and our debate over whether the Senate can find its way out of its filibuster fight on judges. Still in the "CROSSFIRE" joining us from Capitol Hill, New York Democratic Senator Charles Schumer and Texas Republican Senator Kay Bailey Hutchison.
SEN. CHARLES SCHUMER (D) NEW YORK: Hey, Bob?
NOVAK: Yes? Go ahead.
SCHUMER: I was making the point that the 60 judges who didn't-who were blocked under Clinton-it wasn't, as Kay said, majority rule. They didn't get a vote in committee at all. And what happens is that because the Republicans were in charge of the judiciary committee they just didn't bring them up for a vote. There are different circumstances now. You don't have a Democratic president and a Republican controlled Senate which you did then.
But the same idea that the party that didn't control the presidency had some say in determining who the judges were still governs. Now, I know the Republicans get up and say, well, it's a filibuster. Blocking 60 judges and not giving them a vote was also unprecedented and it had the same effect, which is the party who didn't control the presidency but had some clout in the Senate controlled or had some say in what was happening.
NOVAK: Just quickly, Senator Schumer, your leader, minority leader, Senator Harry Reid, Democrat of Nevada, talking to some high school kids a couple days ago, said, "The man's father, former President Bush, is a wonderful human being. I think this guy is a loser. I think President Bush is doing a bad job." Do you think that the Democratic leader of the Senate, talking to high school kids, ought to call the president of the United States a loser?
SCHUMER: Let me say this, Harry Reid is a plain-spoken guy. He sort of a Harry Truman-type guy. He says what he thinks. He doesn't talk in politician-ese. What he was referring to there was not the president as a human being. He was talking about the deficit and how bad the deficit was and how the policies were a loser. Now, he called Karl Rove and explained what he meant.
But I would much rather have a plain-spoken-type guy being our leader than somebody who speaks in, you know, the Washington-ese blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
SHARPTON: Senator Hutchison, talking about plain-spoken, can you honestly say that the 60 judges that were stopped under Bill Clinton's presidency from coming out of committee, did they get an up and down vote. Everyone is saying in the right wing or the Republicans give these people an up or down vote. Did they get an up or down vote the 60 judicial nominees denied under the Clinton administration?
SEN. KAY BAILEY HUTCHISON (R) TEXAS: Reverend Sharpton, I don't think anyone in the Senate-at least 99 percent of the Senate-is not even talking about the committee process on District judges because the fact is senators make one recommendation to the president. They don't make several, they make one. So they virtually choose District judges. But what we are talking about is Circuit Court judges where you have several states represented. And the committee process has always worked. Maybe there have been complaints here or there, but no president in the history of the United States has lost almost a third of the Circuit Court judges. This is one step below the Supreme Court...
NOVAK: I'm afraid that's going to have to be the last word.
HUTCHISON: ...for the constitution to work. The constitution envisions 51 votes, not...
NOVAK: Thank you very much, Senator Hutchison. Thank you. And thank you.
SHARPTON: Senator, you can't filibuster on this shop.
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