CNN "Wolf" - Transcript: Executive Order on Immigration
Interview
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WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: Joining us now, two guests. The Utah Republican Senator Orrin Hatch, who is a key member of the Subcommittee on Immigration, Refugees and Border Security; also joining us, the California Democratic Congresswoman Zoe Lofgren, a member of the Judiciary Committee, a former immigration attorney as well.
To both of you, thanks very much for joining us.
Congresswoman, do you believe -- and you've been involved in this immigration battle for a long time -- the president went far enough?
REP. ZOE LOFGREN, (D), CALIFORNIA & FORMER IMMIGRATION ATTORNEY: Well, I think the president went as far as he thought he could do based on the legal advice that he received. As I'm sure you know, since really they've had the authority to take deferred action and many presidents have, Reagan, the first the first Bush, Kennedy, George W. Bush and on and on. So the question is how far can that go? And although some of us have suggested he might go further, he is doing what his lawyers have suggested he can do and I respect that.
BLITZER: All right. Let me bring Senator Hatch into this conversation.
You've been involved in this conversation for a long time. You were one of 14 Republican Senators who voted for that comprehensive immigration reform bill with Lindsey Graham and Marco Rubio and other Republicans as well. In the past year and a half in the House of Representatives, were you disappointed that the speaker didn't even consider what the Senate had passed?
SEN. ORRIN HATCH, (R), UTAH: No, because I knew that they had their own problems over there and they wanted to do a series of immigration bills, which I think they were prepared to do, once we turn after January 1st. The problem here is that when Zoe mentions the other presidents, take Reagan, take Bush, in both of those cases, they had prior legislation that they then enforced, which is what the president is supposed to do, is enforce legislation. Some --
(CROSSTALK)
BLITZER: Hold on, Congressman.
HATCH: Some have mentioned 22 times the president didn't have this kind of authority, it would be unconstitutional and so forth. Well, I hate to say this, this is not the way to do it. I actually believe the Republicans in the House were going to come up with their versions and then we'd solve the problem. I'd like to get it done the right way and so that it's legally done. I'd like to get it done so there's a lasting solution rather than a temporary one which is what the president has done.
BLITZER: I assume, Congresswoman, that you want to get it down as well. The Republicans will have a bigger majority in the House and the Senate. You're ready to compromise, work with them and see if you can come up with some sort of framework, right?
LOFGREN: Absolutely. We did a count and at the time the count was done, we knew we had the votes to pass the Senate bill. We made it clear to the speaker, I was part of this for over four years, we wrote a bill that because of Republican concerns, we were not able to introduce. We made it clear you can go comprehensive, do it in pieces, do it serially by the Homeland Security committee by border security. He just won't do anything. At some point, the president has to do his job, which is what he has done now. He can't rewrite the law but there is discretion under the law. For example, when the bill was passed, Senator Hatch voted against it. But the bill specifically in 1986, the dependents of the beneficiaries, and President Reagan decided to give all of the dependents deferred action because he couldn't conscious separating families. The president has asked Congress to act. If they don't like what he's done, they can supersede it. Certainly, Senator Hatch did his job, but the House of Representatives, the Republicans refused to act.
BLITZER: A lot of people look back on what President Reagan did in 1986, he went ahead with what was widely called them the Amnesty Bill, which became the law giving amnesty to millions of undocumented people who were here in the United States. So was that a big mistake going back then? You remember that. Because this current president said he's doing exactly what Reagan and Bush did.
HATCH: Reagan had legislation that was passed that he implemented and did it the way he thought he should do it, and that's the difference. Congress is the responsible party to be able to pass legislation like this. The president has the job of enforcing it and implementing it. The president has taken over both acts of Congress and his rights and the rights of the Supreme Court and incorporated them all into the White House. That shouldn't be allowed. It shouldn't be permitted.
Now, I have to say that I've been talking with the Judiciary Committee in the House and they were prepared to go ahead, as soon as we get through the first of next year and come up with a series of bills that they think would be the way to go starting with making sure that the borders are secure.
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BLITZER: Let me ask the Congresswoman --
Are you ready to do this piecemeal, smaller steps and then getting the Senate to pass moderately smaller steps and then sending it to the president for his signature?
LOFGREN: We've made it clear -- I talked to the chairman of the Immigration Subcommittee practically every day. We don't agree on everything but I certainly respect him. I talked to the chairman constantly. No one is talking to us in a bipartisan way about working together. We're prepared to act and to compromise and the president in his speech held out his hands saying, if you don't like this, do your job, legislate, I'll work with you. I would hope that this action, which is bringing peace of mind to millions of people who have been living in fear, I hope this action will spur the Congress to get busy and do their job, which is to provide compromised legislation that can serve the country well.
And I've just got to say that on the legal issue, we've just received a letter from dozens of legal scholars pointing out that the president is well within his authority. Other presidents have done exactly the same thing. And, in fact, the Supreme Court reaffirmed the branch to defer immigration action in cases such as this. So we ought to talk about how to legislate, not get stuck on a legal issue, which is very clear.
BLITZER: We'll see what happens.
(CROSSTALK)
BLITZER: Go ahead, Senator.
HATCH: That's a nice argument but the president doesn't have a right to violate the law, to violate the Constitution. And what Zoe is talking about is presidential action after, and certainly not in granting what really amounts to amnesty to these folks.
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HATCH: Look, I'm on Zoe's side on this. I actually believe we need to do something on this and we did it in the Senate. It's not a perfect bill. I was hopeful the House would pass a more perfect bill. I think we will do that. But what the president did is not a lasting way of solving this problem. It's a temporary way of not even solving it and, in the process, creating a huge uproar that is going to make it more difficult to pass real immigration reform.
I'm going to work with Zoe and others who feel otherwise, and hopefully we can get this done in a way that is decent, honorable, and welcoming to people who already are here and aren't going to go home.
BLITZER: All right.
HATCH: So I'll do my best.
And, Zoe, I hope we can work together.
LOFGREN: I'll look forward to it.
BLITZER: I suspect both of you will be seeing both of you on a house/Senate conference committee working out compromised legislation moving forward.
Senator Hatch, always good to see you. Thanks very much for joining us.
HATCH: Same here.
BALDWIN: Congressman Lofgren, same to you.
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