MSNBC "The Ed Show" - Transcript: Executive Power and Keystone XL Pipeline

Interview

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Let`s bring in former Vermont Governor Howard Dean and also Independent Senator Bernie Sanders from Vermont. All right, I`m going to go to the young guy first. That would be me, all right, just kidding.

Great to have both of you guys here always. You know these are two issues that the Democrats have been well-defined on in the past. The Democrats have led the charge, progressive have led the charge on climate change. No question about it, they want to do something about it. And the Democrats have been very clear that immigration is something that we have to deal with.

Now that there`s been a power shift in the legislative side, Senator Sanders what`s going to change, number one on immigration?

SEN. BERNIE SANDERS, (I) VERMONT: Well the President made it clear, the Senate in fact did the right thing we passed the immigration reform. The House has stalled and stalled and stalled. They have done nothing.

And in my view, what the President is going to make very clear if the Congress can`t act, for the sake of the America people he has got to act. He`s got to act on immigration. He`s got to act on climate change. He has got to act on jobs, on raising the minimum wage, define for the America people what has to be done and let the Republicans say no.

SCHULTZ: Governor Dean, your thoughts on that?

FRM. GOV. HOWARD DEAN, (D) VERMONT: The Republicans have been very good at saying no. And the truth is that Speaker Boehner and his crowd obstructed almost everything that the President wanted to do without proposing any reasonable alternative. They say they had passed 400 bills that have gone over to the Senate to die, well that`s because the Senate was doing there job and not letting the crackpot right-wing and Speaker Boehner`s Tea Party caucus rewrite the Constitution and rewrite the laws of the United States.

Look here are the facts, these five million people that the President is talking about allowing to stay have children that are American citizens.

They`ve often lived here for up to 20 years. They have already contributed to the economy. If you kick them out, first of all the economy is going to be worse off especially in towns like Hazelton which is really suffering because they had the right-wing Mayor, now Congressman up there.

What the President wants to do makes common sense that Republicans are raising issues, dividing us by ethnicity. That`s what they always do. I`m glad the President is standing up for doing the right thing.

SCHULTZ: Senator do you think that this would be an impeachable offense? Now I`m not trying to play into the right-wing bullet points here. But they are saying what they are saying. They believe that the President would be operating outside of his executive authority and breaking the law if he were to take executive action that would give work permits to undocumented workers as a part of immigration reform. Your thoughts on that.

SANDERS: No, of course I do not believe that is an impeachable offense. You know what the Republicans have done in an extraordinarily effective way is play very good politics. They just won a decisive vote by running the way Ed, from everything they really stand for and by putting -- as Governor Dean just mentioned one group against the other.

The fact of the matter is that if you look at the Republican agenda, it`s about cutting Social Security and Medicare and Medicaid not addressing the very serious problems facing the American people. So what they in fact can do I`m sure is rally their extreme right-wing base by talking about immigration, by talking about an impeachment.

But I think when they do that, they`re going to alienate the vast majority of the American people who understand this country has enormously serious problems that have got to be addressed.

SCHULTZ: Do you think Senator Sanders that the President saying that he`s going to move on executive action is going to move the legislative body any faster now that`s in the hands of the Republicans on this issue?

SANDERS: I think what we need to Ed, is clear the air. And the President has got to be able to say, "This is what I`m going to do if you guys don`t act." What the President has said over and over again is he wants legislation. Legislation is much more effective than executive action.

But if you have a Congress that refuses to move on important issues he has got to act. And I`ll tell you what else I think Ed, I think the President should make it very clear right now that those pieces of legislation that he`s prepared to veto and rally the America people in saying no cuts to Social Security, Medicare and nutrition. No cuts. No more cuts, tax breaks for the wealthiest people in this country.

SCHULTZ: Yeah.

SANDERS: Let`s define the issues and see where we can work together. And there are many areas. Let the President stand with the American people and say that the Republicans know we`re not going to go down the path of more pain for the American worker.

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CHULTZ: Senator Sanders, would you use all of your legislative power to
stop Keystone?

SANDERS: The answer is yes. I mean I think the passage of Keystone sends a horrible, horrible message to the entire world. And that message is that the United States is not serious about reversing about climate change and all of the devastation that climate change is going to bring. So I think we have got to be very, very strong on this issue. I think if it does get passed to the Senate next week I think the vote is on Tuesday.

I hope very much the President veto`s it. And I hope he will be able to sustain that veto. But the bottom line is, if you`re talking about jobs, and you made this point Ed, you`re talking about less than 100 permanent jobs. If we want jobs we`ve got to rebuild our crumbling infrastructure and create millions of jobs not 100 jobs. So I hope -- I will do everything that I can to see the defeat of this Keystone Pipeline.

SCHULTZ: Doesn`t it sound like the President is not going to go along with it, based on his last comments at his press conference. It sounds like no ones made the case to him that we have to have this. That`s what I`m hearing. What are you hearing?

SANDERS: Well I`m hearing the same thing that you are and I hope that that is true. I hope very much that he does veto it. This is not a jobs program. This is not going to lower gas prices for the average American motorist. And in fact there are studies out there that suggest it will raise gas prices. So, this is a bad and stupid piece of legislation that will benefit campaign contributors and oil companies. It`s not going to benefit the American people.

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