MSNBC "The Ed Show" - Transcript: Keystone XL Pipeline
Interview
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SCHULTZ: Joining me tonight Senator Bernie Sanders of Vermont, Senator, great to have you with us tonight. A colleague of yours on the other side in the Senate, John Hogan from North Dakota where all the oil is being pump out of the ground said that there will be over 60 supporters for a standalone piece of legislation on Keystone. And that`s going to be one of their first orders of business in the Senate. How can Democrats fight this and what`s your reaction to that news?
SEN. BERNIE SANDERS, (I) VERMONT: Well I think, if you listen to what the scientific community is saying, overwhelmingly is that climate change is real, it is caused by human activity, its already causing devastating problems. So my response for Senator Hogan is, listen to the scientific community, we have got to as a nation lead the world in transforming our energy system away from fossil fuel and into energy efficiency and sustainable energy.
Frankly we will look like fools throughout the entire global economy. If we are advocating more and more dirty oil at the same time as were talking about the need to combat global warming. So, we have got to defeat this Keystone Pipeline, we got to rally the American people to do it and we got to get President Obama to be strong on this issue.
SCHULTZ: Well, speaking on the President he was asked about it yesterday after Mitch McConnell`s press conference. Here`s what he had to say about the Keystone XL at his press conference.
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OBAMA: Our energy sector is booming and I`m happy to engage Republicans with additional ideas for how we can enhance that. And so Keystone I just consider as one small aspect of a broader trend that`s really positive for the American people.
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SCHULTZ: He give a much a lengthier answer than that, that`s just a snippet of it, but your reaction to his position the way it sounds right now Senator?
SANDERS: Look, my reaction is pretty simple. When people tell you the Keystone is a jobs program they`re not telling you the truth. According to the state department it will create about 2,000 jobs, construction jobs over a two-year period and then about 50 permanent jobs. If you want a jobs program, let`s rebuilt our crumbling infrastructure, invest a trillion dollars in doing that and create 13 million jobs not 2,000 jobs.
So I think the answer to our energy crisis is, respect what the scientist are saying transform our energy system, stop putting billions into energy efficiency and into weatherization and move aggressively and win solar, geothermal and biomass.
SCHULTZ: Are you confident Senator that the Democrats can turn the tide on Keystone. I mean they are bound and determined to have this built. It is Canadian oil, it`s toxic, it has to be refined in a special refinery, it`s not going to bring our gas prices down, it`s going to be thrown out on the world market and it`s a big risk coming through to the middle of the country over our Aquifer.
There`s -- as I see it vertical (ph) upside OK, you`re going to move oil either by train or by truck, by pipe, there`s accidence everywhere, it`s a big risk to us. Do you think the Democrats can stop it?
SANDERS: Well, I certainly hope so. And we`re going to need the American people on our side, to move aggressively in getting the Congress to say no to this disastrous idea. You made a good point Ed, is that, this oil a significant part of this oil is going to be exported to Asia. In fact there are at least three separate studies including one in Cornell which suggest that, because of the infrastructure of a refinery infrastructure domestic prices will actually go up.
So here we are going doing something which will (inaudible) climate change, will create a minimal amount of jobs, will enrich the companies that on the oil fields and who do the refinery, do the refining. And at the same time raise gas prices in the United States. This does not make a lot of sense to me.
SCHULTZ: Senator finally, the results that came in on Tuesday night. Does that bring you any closer to a decision or warm your heart more about a Bernie Sanders run at the White House, a run at nomination and a run at the White House? Does that change your thinking or enhance it in anyway.
SANDERS: Well, there`s nothing about Tuesday night that warmed my heart Ed. That was a disastrous night. You know, we are reaching out all over the country to try to ascertain what kind of support there is, for a campaign that takes on the enormously powerful billionaire class. I mean were not just taking about Koch brothers you`re talking about Wall Street and the oil companies, all of these guys.
Can we in fact take them on to a strong grassroots movement? And I`m just talking to people all over the country to kind of figure out what kind of support there is there for that type of campaign.
SCHULTZ: Senator Bernie Sanders, good to have you with us tonight. I appreciate you time, thanks so much.
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