CNN "State of the Union with Candy Crowley" - Transcript: Ebola Outbreak

Interview

BREAK IN TRANSCRIPT

With me now, chairman of the House Oversight Committee, Congressman Darrell Issa.

Congressman, let's talk first about these first three states that have imposed mandatory isolation for health care workers who have dealt with Ebola in West Africa. We now have one nurse under the new rule in New Jersey who is in isolation in a hospital. What do you think of it?

ISSA: Well, I think governors of both parties are reacting to an absence of leadership, an absence of belief that the federal government really does know what they're doing.

And these missteps -- and some of them brought out by the Energy and Commerce Committee hearing and some by ours and others -- really do concern people that it's a 35-year-old disease. If you don't know now how to fight Ebola, why are you changing protocols after 35 years and after we were told that the only way to get it is to breach protocol if you're a nurse.

CROWLEY: Well, I think -- I'm not a doctor, so I won't play one on TV.

ISSA: Nor am I.

CROWLEY: But I think that they would say that their experience with Ebola has not been in a modern medical setting. And there were mistakes made coming into it. I -- but I think the question now is...

ISSA: But, Candy, modern -- modern facilities are inherently better than where we have been fighting it in Africa.

They're saying, in Africa, we know how to beat this. The fact is, the nurses who in some cases were not fully covered when somebody threw up on them, you go, how could the protocol have to be changed just a few days ago?

CROWLEY: Because, in Africa, I'm told a lot of it has to do with inserting I.V. fluids and less about dealing, because they have so many cases that are dying -- so it's more about dehydration than about most other things.

But, having said that, let's say I have two non-doctors forget that conversation for a moment, because I'm not sure you answered the question. The question is, is -- we understand why the governors may have done it. Is it a good idea?

ISSA: Science has told us, if we are to take them at their word, that if somebody does not have an elevated temperature or the other later symptoms, that we can rely on them not being contagious.

If that's true, then immediate isolation of people for 21 days is not the answer. Again, trust matters. If we had begun this process by saying you have to monitor people continuously coming into this country for 10 days -- now we think it's 11 or 12 -- and know whether their temperature rises to know if they were exposed, and we're doing that, then I think the public would have confidence.

But, in this case, we didn't do that. We had Mr. Duncan come in with elevated temperature. We weren't checking it. And now we're playing catchup.

The important thing is, we need to agree that we made mistakes. Government needs to have a plan. And, Candy, some of the plans are pretty straightforward. I -- I -- you know, when I was coming in, I looked and I said, you know how many apps are on the iPhone that you can monitor your temperature continuously?

We need to ask how are we going to have everyone coming into this country who may have had contact, how are we going to make it easy, predictable and verifiable that we're knowing their temperatures for those next X-amount of days?

If we do that, then we have a monitoring system that can prevent this kind of individual action by the states. If we don't do that, then the American people are asking their governors to protect them.

CROWLEY: So, if I understand you correctly, you don't think that this was a good idea, that you do understand why the governors may have reacted.

I want to read you something that the mayor of New York...

ISSA: Our hearing indicated from the people we had that it wasn't a good idea.

Democrats and Republicans pushed back and said, yes, but you have said these things and now you're not credible. That was the problem we saw in our hearing. Obviously, the Energy and Commerce Committee saw changes after they held their hearing that showed that the protocols were not yet accurate.

So, again, this is about public confidence. The way you restore public confidence is, first, you have leadership. Then you admit that you have made...

CROWLEY: The president's done a lot of things...

ISSA: Well, he appointed a lawyer. And, you know, if this was an election problem, I would be a little less worried.

The fact is, I would much rather he find a four-star general or admiral to coordinate these people who have said things that didn't turn out to be inaccurate, who have made mistakes and don't want to admit them.

Your last -- the doctor who was on, he's still -- he's still playing, we didn't make any mistakes. People are...

(CROSSTALK)

CROWLEY: He said there were problems and there were mistakes going in. But, I mean, he did say that, Dr. Fauci.

ISSA: Right. But they were so sure they were right, and now people are dead, people are infected, and governors of both parties are reacting, because there isn't a trust in the leadership of this administration.

Getting that back is doable. It's our responsibility to do it. But it's also our responsibility now to second-guess at our level the things that are said to us to make sure the American people do have watchdogs.

CROWLEY: I want to play you something that the mayor of New York said. He did not know that this isolation regulation was going to be put into effect in New York. And here's what he had to say.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BILL DE BLASIO (D), MAYOR OF NEW YORK: These individuals who are going there to serve are the people who will end this crisis. We can't have the illusion that we can turn away from it and some day it may end. If we took that attitude, if nations around the world took that attitude, this would be a truly devastating global crisis.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CROWLEY: At the -- and it's the same -- it's the same point that Dr. Fauci made, that we can't discourage workers from going there, because where this stops is in West Africa. Would you agree with that point?

ISSA: Absolutely. Absolutely. The fact is that we have got to beat it at its source, just as we have -- and I use this analysis or analogy in my hearing -- just as the global war on terror is fighting ISIL outside of Baghdad, outside of Irbil, and so on, you have to go on to where this is.

At the same time, the American people want to know that our 3,000 or so military personnel are being properly protected, that we're watching for them, and that we have a plan for the inevitability that one or more of them will become infected. And we have got to protect them.

CROWLEY: Congressman, it's a final question. You know that we are in the middle of midterms. One of the major themes...

ISSA: Heard a rumor.

CROWLEY: You heard that rumor.

(LAUGHTER)

CROWLEY: One of the major themes of Republicans has been, he is -- this president mishandling ISIS, he's mishandling Ebola. It's sort of that fear theme.

So how is the American people -- how do you help bring confidence, which you say the American people need in a system, and these are doctors, these are not politicians that came out here and said these things that later proved might not have been exactly right -- so, how do -- how do I not look at your hearing, how do I not look at the continuing criticism of the president, who -- you can say he was late to the game, but he's now trying to, you know, put some procedures in place -- how do we not look at that through a political prism and say, this just fits right in to the Republican talking points?

ISSA: My ranking member, Mr. Cummings, and I asked for a hearing because we needed to get the transparency and make it available to the American people.

That's the beginning of the fix. If this administration opens up, which has not been their way of doing business, and they make witnesses available and they allow the information to be made available to Congress, and Congress then makes a decision with the president that we're doing the right things, then confidence is restored.

That's what we're doing with the war -- the war, if you will, the battle against ISIL, where now there's an engagement. And members of Congress, myself and others, are going over to see how things are going. The same thing here -- the American people expect their congressmen to in fact be part of that process, to come home, even during elections, and say, you know, they made mistakes, but they are getting it right or they're getting closer to having it right.

And we will look other their shoulder and make sure they get it right on behalf of the American people. And I think that's what we're doing. And I think, considering we're only a few days away from an election, we're doing it at an incredibly not partisan basis by all the committees.

CROWLEY: And, just quickly, would you call on the governors of New Jersey, a Republican, New York, a Democrat, Illinois, a Democrat, and say, stop, this isn't necessary, it's confusing, you may discourage workers? Would you tell them it's not a good idea, be done with it?

ISSA: Well, certainly, it's a good idea to monitor temperatures of people coming here from that region.

CROWLEY: Right, but put them in isolation...

ISSA: Well...

CROWLEY: ... would you tell them to stop that?

ISSA: ... they have to have a viable alternative that they can be -- they can feel.

As I said, if they had the ability to monitor for 21 days, as science is telling us, the temperatures of these individuals, so that the moment it spiked, they could go and bring these people into isolation, then I'm sure they would look to that. So, give...

CROWLEY: Well, that's exactly what happened in New York with the doctor.

ISSA: So -- well, no, actually it didn't happen until a while afterwards.

And when they go around and they disinfect places he's been, that says they didn't catch it quickly. Again, continuous monitoring, so that you can quickly put these people in, could be an alternative. But that's the leadership at the top.

The governors are asking the White House and the administration to give them answers. If they give them answers that are better than what they're doing, then these governors, I believe, will do it. Until that time, they're doing what they think is right.

CROWLEY: I got to run.

ISSA: Thank you.

CROWLEY: Congressman Darrell Issa, thanks for coming by.

ISSA: Thanks, Candy.

BREAK IN TRANSCRIPT

Source