MSNBC "Hardball with Chris Matthews" - Transcript: Islamic State

Interview

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U.S. Congressman Adam Schiff is a Democrat from California. He`s on the Intelligence Committee. Jay Newton-Small is Washington correspondent for "TIME" magazine. And David Corn is Washington bureau chief for "Mother Jones" and an MSNBC political analyst.

I want to start with you, Congressman, this question. Why do you think the public is sort of resigned to the idea, despite everything the president says, we`re going in on the ground eventually, 72 percent?

REP. ADAM SCHIFF (D), CALIFORNIA: Well, I think the American people are exhausted after 13 years, but they`re pessimistic about prospects. This has been such a long, hard fight.

I think the American people believe that this is going to be really tough. And they`re right about that. It`s going to be very tough. At the same time, there`s just no appetite to put in ground troops. And what`s more, I think --

MATTHEWS: Well, there is, because the right wing, the Republicans, are all for it.

SCHIFF: Well, I wouldn`t say they`re all for it.

MATTHEWS: And 60-something percent are saying, yes, we want ground troops.

SCHIFF: Well, they`re saying that the president shouldn`t have ruled them out, which is, frankly, a very small point and one I don`t agree with.

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MATTHEWS: You know, Congressman, he`s starting to look old.

SCHIFF: I don`t blame him.

MATTHEWS: I mean, this is getting -- this is brutal, this war.

SCHIFF: There`s a lot of pressure on that guy.

MATTHEWS: He doesn`t want to be there, not in this war.

SCHIFF: You look at any president who has lived in that office as long as he has and it definitely ages you.

MATTHEWS: What do you make of him passing the buck or basically pointing the finger at the CIA, saying they blew it? Is that loyal to your troops?

SCHIFF: Well, I wouldn`t -- I wouldn`t -- I wouldn`t characterize it that way.

MATTHEWS: What do think he meant?

SCHIFF: The president said that he concurred with the head of the intelligence agencies that certain things weren`t foreseen.

But it`s a lot like Leon Panetta once said when he was asked, why didn`t we see the Arab spring coming in a way that we Californians can appropriate? He said, well, you can see pressure building up on the fault lines, you can tell that an earthquake is coming, but in terms of when and how big the magnitude, that`s hard --

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MATTHEWS: Did you think they were a J.V. team?

SCHIFF: Certainly, we were aware -- certainly, we were aware that ISIS was a real threat, that they were gaining ground, that they were gaining military equipment, but seeing the Iraqi army melt away as quickly as it did and fall apart, seeing how quickly the Sunni communities came on board with ISIS -- that I don`t think was predicted. But I frankly don`t blame the I.C. -- the intelligence community over this, they don`t have a crystal ball anymore than the rest of us. We rely on them and they do provide with good intelligence, and they did.

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MATTHEWS: Why did we think the Iraqi army was up to it if they weren`t?

SCHIFF: Well, that`s the thing, you know? As much as I respect Richard Engel, and I think he`s one of the best, nothing that he just reported in that clip said we see the Iraqi army falling apart. They`re just not going to fight. They`re going to run and hide.

People didn`t see that coming. Yes, you can call that a failure, but frankly, you got to expect the intelligence community to have a crystal ball, which I don`t. They did tell us how Maliki was governing in a sectarian war -- sectarian way.

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