MSNBC "The Ed Show" - Transcript: Campaign Finance

Interview

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SCHULTZ: We are joined tonight by Vermont Senator Bernie Sanders. Senator, good to have you with us, I know how you feel about Citizens United, but I`d like you to respond to the Senator Cruz from Texas on that. How outrageous is it?

SEN. BERNIE SANDERS, (I) VERMONT: Well, sounds like he is on Saturday Night Live. It`s a very funny skit. You know, Citizens United is a little over 4-years-old., Saturday Night Live has been on the air for decades, and I don`t recall too many people on Saturday Night Live going to jail for making fun of politicians, not on Fox T.V., not on MSNBC, it`s a preposterous argument.

And what it attempts to do is just another scare tactic because they understand that the vast majority of the American people across the political spectrum understand that democracy is not about the ability of billionaires like the Koch brothers and others to buy elections. That is not what democracy is about.

SCHULTZ: They claim that money is free speech, your response?

SANDERS: And my response is that money is not free speech, that in a democracy we have the right to elect people based on their ideas and not on the ability of a billionaire like the Koch brothers to spend hundreds of millions of dollars, on tens of thousands of political ads.

We have had campaign finance law in this country for many, many decades. I would go further, I believe in public funding of elections. But the idea that democracy is for sale to the highest bidder -- to those people who could spend the most money is an insult to those of us who believe in a democratic society. That is called an oligarchic society...

SCHULTZ: Yeah.

SANDERS: ... not a democratic society.

SCHULTZ: Do you think that there are Republicans at heart, somewhat nervous about all of this money that, you know, maybe Citizens United isn`t the right way to go...

SANDERS: Yeah.

SCHULTZ: ... in this constitutional amendment. Do you think there`s enough of them, for Congress to do something about it?

SANDERS: Look, the fact to the matter is right now the Republicans are clearly the major beneficiaries in terms of the Koch brothers, Sheldon Adelson and others. So they`re looking at Citizens United, is a pretty good Supreme Court decision. And by the way Ed, as you know, the leadership of the Republican Party wants to know even further than Citizens United.

They want to do away with all restrictions so that billionaires can hand candidates a check for $50 million or $100 million directly without having to do independent expenditures, but in terms of your question, yes. I have talked to Republicans who have already seen ads coming into their state which make them very, very nervous.

SCHULTZ: OK.

SANDERS: So I think the overwhelming majority of the money is going in support of Republicans but not all of it. So you have some Republicans who win their heart of hearts, understand that it is nonsense that any billionaire, any corporation can spend as much money as they want on campaigns.

SCHULTZ: So, do you think someday it will be overturned? Do you think someday...

SANDERS: I do.

SCHULTZ: ... Citizens United -- there will come a day in our lifetime where Citizens United will be legislatively and constitutionally addressed?

SANDERS: Absolutely and I will tell you why Ed, because that`s what the vast majority of the American people want. They are disgusted with what they are seeing right now. You know, there are something like 16 states that have already gone on record on opposition to six (ph) Citizens United, hundreds of hundreds of cities and towns all over this country.

So I think the American people want fair elections. They want free elections. They don`t want billionaires buying elections.

SCHULTZ: OK. Senator, I want to give you a chance to be remised if I didn`t give you an opportunity to give us your quick thoughts on what you expect out of the President tonight in his address to the country in dealing with the situation in the Middle East?

SANDERS: Well, I think a couple of things, we`ll see what he has to say but, you know, I think he will tell us what we all know to be truth, that ISIS is a very serious threat to the region, to the world. That we need an international effort to combat for ISIS, politically and militarily, that we should not be sending American troops into another ground war, that what we saw in Iraq as result of Bush and Cheney was the worst foreign policy blunder in the modern history of America, which caused many of the problems that we`re seeing right now, not to mention the lost of lives, not to mention trillions of dollars.

So this is a very complicated and difficult issue...

SCHULTZ: OK.

SANDERS: ... and I do not criticize the President for being thoughtful and trying to figure out the best way forward in a real morass out there.

SCHULTZ: Senator Bernie Sanders, appreciate your time tonight sir. Thanks for being on the Ed Show.

SANDERS: Thank you.

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