CBS "Face the Nation" - Transcript: Islamic State of Iraq and Syria and the Situation Between Russia and Ukraine

Interview

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For more of the threat from ISIS, we turn to Congressman Adam Smith, a top Democrat on the House Armed Services Committee. He's joining us from Seattle. And Republican Peter King, a senior member of the House Homeland Security and Intelligence Committee, Congressman King joins us from his home state of New York.

Congressman Smith, let me start with you.

Do you have any reaction to Senator McCain's comments about Syria and the Ukraine? Specifically, let's start with Syria.

REP. ADAM SMITH (D), WASHINGTON: Well, I think the point is absolutely it is a military conflict. But it is also a political one. And I think the problem is, we need reliable partners to work with in the region. If we simply come in and start bombing ISIS, we run the risk of forcing Sunnis into their camp.

And let's take Iraq as an example. When the problems began in Iraq, there was considerable criticism that the president didn't act right then. But the problem was, we had the Maliki government in Iraq. And if we had acted right then, we would have coming in on the side of Iran and the Shias in a Shia-Sunni civil war.

And what we need in Iraq and what we need in Syria is, we need moderate Sunnis to oppose ISIS. To do that, we have to build that coalition. Building that coalition is not an excuse for not doing military action. It is making sure that that military action is effective by insisting on a change in government in Iraq, getting something even approaching a power-sharing arrangement to bring some Sunnis back in, put us in a stronger position.

Similarly, when we were able to partner with the Kurds, that put us in a stronger position to confront ISIS. In Syria, it is much more complicated. We have got to work with the free Syria movement, but they are relatively weak and divided. And the last problem we have there is for too long potential allies in the region like Turkey and Saudi Arabia were funding groups like al-Nusra and ISIS, you know, increasing their power.

Now I think those folks have seen the light, and they want to try to work with us, but it takes time to build a coalition. We can't simply bomb first and ask questions later. We have to have the right targets and the right support in order to be effective in stopping ISIS, instead of uniting Sunnis around them.

GARRETT: Very good.

Congressman King, I want to play for you something that British Prime Minister David Cameron said on Friday about the threat to the U.K. and possibly other Western nations. Let's take a listen.

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DAVID CAMERON, BRITISH PRIME MINISTER: What we're facing in Iraq now with ISIL is a greater and deeper threat to our security than we have known before. People are rightly concerned about so-called foreign fighters who have traveled from Britain to Syria and Iraq, taken part in terrorist acts, and now come back to threaten our security here at home. And the scale of this threat is growing.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GARRETT: Congressman King, based on what you know, what can you tell our audience about the likelihood of an ISIS or ISIL attack on the United States? Is that really the leading threat we have to face here, or is it more something that the Europeans, specifically the British, have to be concerned with?

REP. PETER KING (R), NEW YORK: No, Major, I would say that we have to face it as much as the British do.

While there's more Brits in Syria than there are Americans, the fact is all of those Brits -- it could be 500, as David Cameron said and there's also thousands of others from other European nations who have gone to Syria -- they all have European passports and they can all come to the United States.

In addition to that, we have over 100 Americans that are there and a number of Canadians who can come back to the United States. And as we have been seen in the past, the United States is always the main target of these terrorist organizations. So, no, we are very concerned about this.

And I would say, I wish our president were showing the same leadership that David Cameron showed. What is President Obama waiting for? I agree with Adam Smith that we have to have coalitions and we have to try to get other forces on our side.

But it was a year ago this all started. I remember being at the White House with Denis McDonough talking about the importance of air attacks in Syria. And he had allies lined up, and then the president pulled the rug out and those allies are going to be very hard now to get back into a coalition.

Also, meeting with Vice President Biden in the White House trying to get support to groups in the Free Syrian Army. Virtually nothing has been done on that. We can't wait forever. And the longer we do wait, the stronger ISIS becomes, more people amassing it, and more America and Britain become at risk.

GARRETT: I would like to ask you both.

(CROSSTALK)

GARRETT: Adam, I will give you a second.

SMITH: Sure.

GARRETT: Let me ask you both, is this a situation that should remind us of what we did or did not do with al Qaeda? We did not declare war on al Qaeda. Should we declare war on ISIS and should we organize the U.S. government and a military strategy around defeating it as rapidly as possible, even if that means we can't always have the perfect or even near-perfect coalition that you talked about a minute ago, Congressman Smith?

SMITH: Well, I think the problem with doing that is what Peter references, the air attacks that the president threatened and didn't do. Those were air attacks that were going to be against the Assad regime, the very people that ISIS is fighting.

So I think that shows the complexity of the situation. We do not want to come into Syria now on the side of Assad. We have got to find other folks, the free Syria movement, to work with. But that isn't simple. And, again, if we go in and appear to be, you know, choosing either Assad's side or the Shia side in a civil war, then we simply drive more Sunnis into the arms of ISIS.

That's why we have got to build these partnerships. Building these partnerships isn't about, oh, we would rather not do it ourselves. It is about it won't be effective if we do it ourselves. Yes, the threat is real. I think it is a bit of an overstatement at this point to say that that threat is on par with al Qaeda.

Al Qaeda was actively plotting attacks and they had numerous of them that they were plotting against the U.S. and other Western targets. ISIS has a lot of foreign fighters who are coming in, some of whom are going back, and we are worried about lone wolf attacks. There is no evidence at this point that they are actually doing the sort of command-and-control plotting, planning specific attacks against Western targets, like al Qaeda was, gosh, for better -- for almost a decade before 9/11.

GARRETT: Congressman King, let me pick up on that, because there are some analysts who have said the fact that we are now carrying out airstrikes in Iraq will make ISIS more likely than it would have been originally to attack the United States, create a grievance for them that didn't exist before.

Would that also be the case in Syria, and is that something for the U.S. government to ponder?

KING: No.

Al Qaeda didn't need a grievance to attack us on 9/11. These groups, they don't need any excuse. They will attack us whenever they can. And I would disagree with Adam. I believe strongly that ISIS does plan on attacking the United States. Even three years ago, their predecessor organization attempted to attack Fort Knox, and two people were arrested and convicted in Kentucky for that attempted attack.

And, again, Adam talks about and the president talks about setting up this coalition. They started a year ago, and they can't put it together. How long do we wait? The longer we wait, the more dangerous ISIS becomes. And my main criticism of last year was the president lined up these allies for the bombing attacks, he drew the red line, and then he pulled the rug out without telling those allies.

And now they don't trust the president. And that's why you are going to find a reluctance for other countries, for instance, other Arab states to get involved with us in a coalition.

GARRETT: Let me talk to you both about Ukraine, because I have talked to several analysts who believe that is a bigger threat, because Vladimir Putin is trying to upset all understood international orders, international rules of law in Ukraine.

What, Congressman Smith, do you think is the appropriate response from the United States government? Should it only be sanctions or should the United States, as Senator McCain suggested, introduce arms and intelligence on behalf of the Ukrainians fighting the Russian incursion?

SMITH: Well, first of all, both of these situations are threats. I would certainly argue that ISIS is the bigger threat, because they are a terrorist organization with specific designs on disrupting the region and ultimately attacking us in the West.

But, obviously, containing Putin is a threat. And I think we should support the Ukrainian government strongly in pushing back against the separatists and the Russian incursion. That means strong economic sanctions against Russia. I even believe that it would be appropriate -- and we have sent some non-lethal aid to the Ukraine.

I think it is appropriate to up that level of aid, to make them a more capable fighting force to resist this incursion and to make it as painful as possible for Putin to make any progress in the Ukraine. So, I do think we should be more forceful in supporting the Ukrainian government.

GARRETT: Congress King, you have got about 30 seconds. Wrap us on this, if you would please.

KING: I agree entirely with Adam Smith on that, as I do on many issues, by the way.

No, I think it is important that we do arm the Ukrainians, allow them to defend themselves, give them the wherewithal that they need, because we have to let Putin know that there's going to be a price to pay for this. Otherwise, we can see a move on the Baltics. We can see troubles spreading through Poland and the Czech Republic.

He has to be told he cannot recreate a Soviet or a Russian empire. And if we can provide weapons -- and we should -- to the Ukrainians, I think we should do it at the earliest possible moment.

GARRETT: Congressmen King, Congressman Smith, thank you so much for joining us on FACE THE NATION.

KING: Thank you.

SMITH: Thank you.

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