FOX "Fox News Sunday with Chris Wallace" - Transcript: ISIS and Situation Between Russia and Ukraine

Interview

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WALLACE: Chairman McCaul, some of your fellow Republicans are saying, look, the president still wants to go around the law, he's just going to wait until after November when voters can no longer them accountable.

REP. MICHAEL MCCAUL (R-TX), CHAIRMAN, HOMELAND SECURITY CMTE: Well, I think it's totally politically calculated. He's made this determination that if he gets out in front on this issue, it will hurt seven to eight Senate races and he could potentially lose the Senate. I think Harry Reid has sent that message clearly to the president, which is why I think you've seen him back off of this position.

So I think it's nothing more than raw politics and the idea of amnesty by executive action, I think the House Republicans does not sit well.

WALLACE: Let's turn, gentlemen, to ISIS and the threat from ISIS to the U.S. homeland. Chairman McCaul, there's been a lot of talk about Americans, maybe as many as a hundred who have left the United States, gone over to the Middle East and are fighting alongside ISIS. How concerned are you about them coming home and conducting terrorist attacks, and especially as we approach this week, the 13th anniversary of 9/11?

MCCAUL: I'm extremely concerned about this problem. I know intelligence officials, homeland security officials are concerned about this. We've had two "be on the lookout" notices that have already gone out by the FBI and homeland security officials.

I think the biggest concern, Chris, is what you outline, and that is, we have somewhere between a hundred to 200 Americans that have left the United States to go over there. We have tens of thousands of foreign fighters, many with Western passports that can get legally into Western Europe and many into the United States of America. And I think that's a threat. You don't know what you don't know. And as we approach the anniversary of 9/11 -- anniversaries mean a lot to al Qaeda. We know in the bin Laden compound, they had -- he had plans to attack on the 10th anniversary. So, I think we're going to be on a very high state of vigilance. I do think the threat is very real. But the best way to deal with this threat is to take out ISIS where they exist today and that's not just Iraq. That's also in Syria.

WALLACE: I'm going to get to that in a moment if I may. But let's bring in Senator Menendez on the threat to the homeland.

The Brits increase the security level to severe because of all the foreign fighters, including many with -- hundreds with British passports and the threat that they might come home.

Are you worried about Americans or Westerners who can get into this country, especially as we look ahead to this 9/11 anniversary, Senator?

MENENDEZ: Well, Chris, as someone who lost over 700 citizens on September 11th from New Jersey, I'm always concerned. ISIS is a savage terrorist organization that has to be defeated before they can create the operational wherewithal to conduct a September 11th-like tragedy. And so, we have to use all of our intelligence to make sure that those who hold U.S. passports or those from European countries that have easier access into the United States, can be that thwarted before they income come here and/or are reviewed to make sure that they don't become a threat here on the homeland.

And at the same time, we have to strike at ISIS and make sure that they cannot become the threat that we lived under September 11th, 13 years ago.

WALLACE: OK. Let's pick up on that. President Obama I think you both agree had several stumbles on describing ISIS. First, he had no strategy. And then, he talked about shrinking it to a manageable problem.

After the NATO summit, he came up with this formulation.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: We are going to achieve our goal. We are going to degrade and ultimately defeat ISIL.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WALLACE: But there is still no plan to hit ISIS in its base of operations in Syria. We still don't know what the nine other countries in the coalition are going to do. Chairman McCaul, does the president have a strategy now?

MCCAUL: Well, I think, as you pointed out, the mixed messages coming out of the White House has been very confusing, and I think, dangerous to American lives. I don't still know what the clearly defined strategy is. As chairman of the Joint Chiefs, General Dempsey, said, to defeat ISIS, you have to defeat them where they exist and where their command and structure is. And that is in Syria.

But he seems to be staying, back off from that. And his policy so far has been a policy of containment, not of defeat. To obtain that objective, I do believe you have to go into Syria.

Now, the president's going to talk to the American people on Wednesday. I hope that he expands this into Syria where ISIS is strongest. And I do think he needs to go to the Congress to update the authorized use of military force to get the additional authorities against ISIS and into Syria.

WALLACE: Let me bring Senator Menendez into this.

As just been pointed out, still no plan to launch air strikes against ISIS in Syria. When it comes to the ground game, we're back to talking about the long-forgotten, much neglected moderate Syrian rebels.

Senator, are you satisfied that this president now has a coherent plan to destroy ISIS?

MENENDEZ: I think that what he said at the beginning, I think he misspoke. What he really said was he hadn't decided on the strategy yet.

But, look, I see a developing strategy here. I see a combination of air and drone strikes against ISIS' leaders, targets and positions. I see a coalition that is developing out of NATO. I see moderate countries that are aligning with us like the United Arab Emirates and Saudi Arabia, contributing to the efforts. I see the ability to have Iraqi army and Peshmerga deal on the ground, with the successes of air strikes as it relates to ISIS targets in Iraq.

And then, of course, you have to, as I call for them, the Senate Foreign Relations Committee has called for for sometime, to robustly help the moderate rebels to take over the ground for airstrikes in Syria.

I do see that coming together. And I think when the president speaks to the country on Wednesday and the subsequent follow-up that will come before the Congress, we are clearly headed to a strategy that will defeat ISIS.

WALLACE: Gentlemen, we have about two minutes left and I want you to share it evenly, because I want talk about Ukraine where there's now a cease-fire but a cease-fire that leaves the pro-Russian separatists in control of large swaths of Eastern Ukraine. President Obama said he's skeptical about the cease-fire but he also seemed to, in a sense, see it as a victory for NATO. Take a look at this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

OBAMA: The only reason that we're seeing the cease-fire at this moment is because of both the sanctions that have already been applied and the threat of further sanctions.

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WALLACE: Chairman McCaul, who's won here, the U.S. and NATO, or Putin and Russia?

MCCAUL: I think long-term Putin is winning. I think weakness invites aggression. That's what you're seeing. I think Senator Menendez has called this an invasion and I agree with that.

The Crimea example is I think the model here that Putin -- if you look at long-term strategy, what is he trying to accomplish, I believe in targeting Russian-speaking peoples across not only Ukraine but the Baltic nations is a policy to regain the glory days of the old Soviet empire.

With respect to the cease-fire -- yes, we're all very hopeful. But the problem is, even this morning now, you had air strikes that have basically violated that cease-fire agreement.

So, I think we're dealing with a very dangerous force here. And I don't think until NATO and the United States leads and actually arms Ukraine with lethal weapons are you going to see Putin really backing off.

WALLACE: Well, Senator Menendez, you're just back from the region as Congressman McCaul point the out. You have called it an invasion even if the administration hasn't. You have called for sending military weapons to Ukraine, even though the administration hasn't.

Are you satisfied with a cease-fire that leaves the separatists in control of broad swaths of territory in eastern Ukraine?

MENENDEZ: Absolutely not. Look, until Russia returns its thousands of forces and tanks and military equipment back over the border into Russia and there is a border that is secured hopefully with international observers, and Ukraine's territorial sovereignty is retained, there is not a solution. This is a temporary pause.

And we have to take Putin's calculations and show him he's wrong -- which means that the sanctions being considered beyond what we've done by both the E.U. and the United States should take place, should move forward. And, secondly, that we should give the Ukrainians the ability to fight for themselves. That will change Putin's calculations.

WALLACE: Senator Menendez, Congressman McCaul, we want to thank you both so much. Thanks for talking with us today, gentlemen.

MENENDEZ: Good to be with you.

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