MSNBC "Hardball with Chris Matthews" - Transcript: Iraq

Interview

MATTHEWS: We`re back.

For reaction from Congress on the military action in Iraq, going on
right now, we turn to U.S. Congressman John Garamendi, a Democrat from
California, who sits on the House Armed Services Committee.

We also have joining us U.S. Congressman Dana Rohrabacher, Republican
from California, who sits on the House Foreign Relations Committee.
Gentlemen, thank you.

Let`s start with Congressman Rohrabacher. Your sense of this mission
as it`s been defined, are you supportive of this decision to try to hold
off the ISIS forces from basically committing genocide to start with?

REP. DANA ROHRABACHER (R), CALIFORNIA: Well, obviously the president
is to be commended for sending humanitarian support -- food, the water, to
prevent people from starving or dying of thirst. And also, commendable to
prevent them from being annihilated by people who are armed and they are
unarmed people.

But let`s take a look, and a limited sense that he knows he has to use
some American military support, but that should be very limited, and let`s
remember that this crisis has been brought on because this president has
not had a coherent policy in that part of the world. We end up not
supplying our friends. We have withheld support from the Kurds for a long
time, just like this administration is withholding aid from Sisi in Egypt
that the Egyptian government --

MATTHEWS: Yes, well, that`s been the rational for that --

ROHRABACHER: This crisis has been brought on by this administration.

MATTHEWS: OK, I accept that assessment. Your assessment.

What has been the rationale from the White House for not aiding the
Kurds sufficiently? Do they want them to be part of the united government
in Baghdad? Is that`s what their argument was or what?

ROHRABACHER: You could hear it in the president`s speech last night.
That his idea of how he`s going to solve this is get everybody in the same
room and to agree to a government they can all agree on.

MATTHEWS: And what`s your solution?

ROHRABACHER: That type of policy does not work. We should be
supporting those elements that are pro-American, and if we would have
supported the Kurds, let them become a national entity, you would have had
the Sunnis and the Shiites --

MATTHEWS: OK.

ROHRABACHER: -- creating their national entity and that would have
created stability.

MATTHEWS: So, coincidentally, not bipartisan observation, but
coincidentally, you`re where Biden is, let them split up, let them be three
different countries.

ROHRABACHER: That`s correct. It`s unfortunate this president has
this idea that we`re going to get everybody in a room and sing kumbayah and
hold hands.

MATTHEWS: OK, fair enough.

ROHRABACHER: And that`s going to create some kind of peace in that
area.

MATTHEWS: No, I think that`s a good argument.

ROHRABACHER: They`re suffering because we have not had a coherent
policy of supporting those elements that are pro-American in that part of
the world.

MATTHEWS: OK, John Garamendi, your view of the whole thing in terms
of trying to focus it on the situation, the humanitarian aid, you know,
Dana Rohrabacher said we have to do something right now. It`s the larger
questions that haven`t been figured out here.

REP. JOHN GARAMENDI (D), CALIFORNIA: Well, certainly true, but we
have an immediate humanitarian crisis, potential for genocide, and the
president is doing exactly what he should do and what I believe Americans
want him to do. That is to provide the humanitarian support in every way
possible, and to prohibit or prevent any genocide that might be in the
future. That`s the appropriate way to go.

MATTHEWS: Can we do it with the pinprick attacks? Can we do it with
knocking out a couple personnel carriers? We`re dealing with zealots who
were willing to die for God. They`re determined to kill or be killed.

Will we stop when we stop them with this sniper attack basically on them?
It`s what it`s been.

GARAMENDI: Well --

MATTHEWS: It`s not an all-out assault on them at all.

GARAMENDI: Well, the other option, put another 150,000 troops back
into Iraq, no way, no how. This is going to have to be worked out in that
area by the people in that area. Certainly, the Kurds have a great
interest in seeing ISIS prevented from getting any closer, and involvement
in their area, the Shiites likewise. The surrounding countries, Jordan and
the rest of them. All of them have a very severe threat.

And, yes, we ought to get all of them in a room. Kumbayah is not the
right song. We better come together, together with those that have an
interest in that area, and get to work on trying to prevent this radical
group from taking over. That`s what we have --

(CROSSTALK)

ROHRABACHER: I was not talking about -- I was not talking about
getting all of those other powers in the room. That, I agree with 100
percent. I`m talking about getting everybody in Iraq in one room and
suddenly then they`re going to find a consensus.

(CROSSTALK)

MATTHEWS: Congressman Rohrabacher, I worry about it -- do you think
that the Kurds will defend their city, defend Irbil? Will they fight for
it in the next couple days?

ROHRABACHER: Sure, they will. But we need to make sure they have the
ammunition which we have denied them. We have supported a pro-mullah
regime in Kabul, in Baghdad.

(CROSSTALK)

MATTHEWS: People hear your argument. I think people figure the
argument out. I think we have to help the Kurds.

Thank you, Congressman John Garamendi, former Peace Corps volunteer in
Ethiopia, a comrade of mine in good causes.

And Congressman Dana Rohrabacher, a great speechwriter for Ronald
Reagan.

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