FOX "Fox News Sunday with Chris Wallace" - Transcript:

Interview

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SEN. MARCO RUBIO, R-FL: Thank you. Thanks for having me back.

WALLACE: House Republicans passed two measures on Friday, one to make it easier to deport those unaccompanied minors on the border, the other to block the president from deferring any more deportations. The conservative editorial page of "The Wall Street Journal" criticized what it called "Deportation Republicans". "The GOP again gave the country the impression that its highest policy priority is to deport as many children as rapidly as possible back from wherever they came."

Is that the message that Republicans need to be sending Hispanic voters, sir?

RUBIO: Well, I don't think that's an accurate assessment of what's happened here. We have a serious situation on the border, an unsustainable situation on the border that cannot continue. The only way to address that is to address the root causes of what's happening, and the root causes are a combination of course of violence and instability and poverty in central America.

But it's also, according to the president of Honduras, ambiguities in our laws and those ambiguities began in 2008 with a very well-intentioned law to prevent human trafficking and address it, and then it continued in 2012 with the president's deferred action program. And the combination of those two things have allowed trafficking groups to go into these communities in Central America and tell people that America has some special law that's going to allow them to come here and stay, and that's serving as a lure that's driving this crisis.

WALLACE: But, Senator, after Mitt Romney lost the Hispanic vote to Barack Obama in 2012 by 44 points, the RNC, the Republican National Committee, issued this post-mortem, "We must embrace and champion comprehensive immigration reform. If we do not, our party's appeal will continue to shrink to its core constituencies only."

In fact, hasn't your party doesn't exactly the opposite these last two years, haven't you further alienated Hispanic voters?

RUBIO: Well, I continue to believe we have to reform our immigration laws. I think that's good for the country. I wouldn't say that because of politics.

But this issue is related but separate from that. This issue involves a mass migration on the border happens to be many unaccompanied minor and children.

And what we need to do is three things. Number one is we have to treat them the way Americans always treat people in the most compassionate way possible. Number two, these children eventually will have to return -- most of them anyways to their country, because otherwise, you are encouraging more people to undertake that very dangerous journey. And the third thing is you have to address these ambiguities in our law that are creating the circumstances that are allowing these trafficking groups to convince people to pay them $8,000 or $10,000 to bring them here.

WALLACE: But, Senator, now, the president is talking because nothing is going to get through Congress, now the president is talking about acting on his own, taking further -- excuse me -- executive action not only to deal with the immediate crisis, but also perhaps as the White House says, consider deferring millions of more deportations of illegal immigrants now in this country.

Here's what he had to say on Friday.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

OBAMA: While they are out on vacation, I'm going to have to make some tough choices to meet the challenge, with or without Congress.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WALLACE: What can Republicans do if the president decides to take action on his own, not just on this immediate crisis, but to further overhaul the entire immigration system?

RUBIO: Well, a couple of things. First of all, what the president is partially threatening to do is something I've been warning about for the better part of two years and that's an executive action that basically grants the equivalent of this deferred action that he granted to people that arrived here as youngsters, granting it to a larger population of people. I think in many respects, for those of us like myself that support immigration reform, that would be one step forward but three steps back. It would further drive this narrative that this is a president not interested in enforcing our laws, which right now is the single greatest single impediment to moving forward.

As far as immigration, you know, I've been dealing with this issue for the better part of 18 months. And I know now more than ever if you're in favor of immigration reform, then we have to re-evaluate the process by which we achieve it.

And in my mind, given everything that's going on now, especially the only way we're going to make progress on this issue is to first deal with illegal immigration, secure the border, win people's confidence that in reality this problem is under control. Step two would be to modernize our legal immigration laws, geared more towards a merit based system like what Canada has as opposed to the family based system. And then, step three, after you do those two things, would be to address in a reasonable yet responsible way the fact that we have 9 million, 10 million, 11 million people living in this country illegally.

WALLACE: But, Senator, some people say that you're taking a step back. And they point out the fact that you were one of the leaders for comprehensive integration reform for pushing it through the Senate last year in which you -- yes, you dealt with border enforcement but at the same time you put in place a plan, an eventually over the course of 10 to 12 years path to citizenship. And there's no question that after that, you took a hit in the polls. And I'm going to put some up. In April of last year, before the comprehensive plan, you led possible Republican contenders for president at 19 percent. Last October, you dropped to 12 percent. And now, a poll out just the last couple of weeks, you're down to 6 percent.

Is that why you have now switched and said we have to do this in stages with enforcement first and any dealing with legality or citizenship for the immigrants way down the line and afterwards?

RUBIO: Yes. When I got involved the issue, I knew how difficult it was politically. But I ran for office to make a difference, and this is an issue that only that I believe I could be a part of making a difference in, I believe it's one the country needs to confront and solve for the good of America. I don't know what it means politically for me or anybody else, but that's not my job. I didn't get elected to maintain good poll numbers nationally. I got elected to address and solve problems.

As far as what to do about immigration, I'm not talking about changing --

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WALLACE: If it's not political, why have you slipped? If I may, sir, if it's not political, why have you slipped?

RUBIO: That's not accurate, Chris

WALLACE: But you're now saying it has to be done in stages.

RUBIO: I haven't. That's not accurate.

WALLACE: Before, you wanted a comprehensive plan.

RUBIO: Well, we're not -- but I think we're talking about two separate things. Now, we're talking about two separate things. We're not talking about what to do.

I just outlined to you what to, we have to do those three things: security, reform of modernizing the legal system, and then address the people that are here. So, we're not debating what to do. We're debating how to do it.

And I'm just telling you, we will never have the votes necessary to pass one bill all of those things. It just won't happen.

So, our choices are: we can either continue to beat our head against the wall and try a process for which we'll never have the support, or we can try another way that perhaps we can make progress on. So, what I'm just talking about here is trying to figure out a different way of doing it where we can actually achieve it, but it's got to be a process that has a chance to pass.

WALLACE: Senator, you said recently that Hillary Clinton is a 20th century candidate. Some people saw that as a veiled reference to her age. How do you plead?

RUBIO: Well, I think you can be 40 years old and be a 20th century candidate. That has to do with the fact that America and our challenges have rapidly changed just in the last decade. We're going to have more global competition for investment, for innovation and for talent, but our laws and our regulations are making us less competitive.

We -- all of the better-paying jobs of the 21st century require some form of higher education. We have an outdated higher education system that's too expensive and for working people too difficult to access.

Those things have to be addressed. We are not just suffering from a cyclical downturn in our economy. We are going through the equivalent of an industrial revolution every five years. And I don't think she or her party and quite frankly even some people in my party have answers to that.

And so, our challenge for not just Republicans but for the country is to apply the time-tested principles of limited government and free enterprise to our modern challenges. She's incapable of doing that, as is most of her party wedded to outdated and broken institutions.

WALLACE: But, but --

RUBIO: And that's my argument as it relates to her, and the left in general.

WALLACE: But less than a minute left, sir. I mean, not say that they are right or wrong, but aren't your solutions, aren't the Republican solutions, whether it's less spending or lower taxes, aren't those 20th century solutions as well?

RUBIO: Well, our solutions -- my solutions are more deeper than that. I want to make America more competitive place to invest and innovate. So, I want our tax code and our regulations to be competitive in comparison to other countries. I want to reform higher education so people that have to work full time and raise a family can go back to school and get a degree that will actually help them make more money than what they're making now.

And so, you can do that and still be a limited government and free enterprise conservative and those are the kind of modern issues we now face.

So, I spent all year outlining these things and I look forward to continue to do that -- hopefully, in a Republican majority Senate.

WALLACE: Senator Rubio, thank you so much. Always a pleasure to talk with you, sir. Please come back.

RUBIO: Thank you, Chris.

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