MSNBC "Hardball with Chris Matthews" - Transcript: Conflict in Gaza

Interview

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Joining me right now is U.S. Senator Chuck Schumer of New York. Senator Schumer, how does the United States play a role when it is clear that the Netanyahu government and Israel wants to get something done before the fighting stops, and the Hamas people on the other side in Gaza who have been firing rockets continue to do so? It`s as if both sides want to continue this fight until some point is achieved. So, what can the United States do to stop them?

SEN. CHARLES SCHUMER (D), NEW YORK: Well, as Martin Fletcher mentioned, there was a peace offered by Egypt, that cease-fire, rather, that Israel accepted a week ago. Hamas rejected it.

Israel has now accepted two cease-fires offered by Egypt, which everybody regards as a sort of down-the-middle, neutral arbiter, and Hamas has rejected them. More to the point, what other country would stop in the middle of a military operation if rockets were coming from that country to their country and say, oh, let`s have a -- let`s sort of ignore it and let them fire at us again in a few weeks?

What the Israeli public is demanding, what any public under these conditions would want is that the Israeli armed forces finish the job. Get rid of the rockets. Finish the tunnels.

MATTHEWS: Yes.

SCHUMER: And then see what can happen in Gaza.

But the -- any government`s obligation, first obligation is to protect its own citizens. And that`s all Israel is doing. I think all they ask is that the world not have a double standard. The way Germany would respond if Berlin were attacked, the way France would respond if Paris were attacked, the way the U.S. would respond if Washington or any other city were attacked is all Israel wants, which is to make sure it doesn`t happen again.

MATTHEWS: And congratulations. I said so last week. And I really believe you were right in a column you wrote for "The New York Post" last week, where you said Israel`s justice pursuit of justice in regard to the killing of that Palestinian kid and perhaps burning him alive, that was so much at odds with the way the Palestinians handled the killing of the Israeli three kids.

SCHUMER: Yes. Well, I think most Israelis and most American supporters of Israel, Jewish and Gentile alike, feel there is a massive double standard going on.

To say both Israel and Hamas are equally to blame is wrong. Hamas fired the rockets into Israel. Israel is trying to defend itself. Hamas uses civilians as shields and puts these rockets in all kinds of places where civilians are. Israel tries to protect its civilians and have them far away from this.

And, as you said, when the three Israeli boys were kidnapped and murdered, there were cheers and parades. The mother of one of the suspects said, I hope it`s my son, whereas in Israel, those fanatics, the Jewish fanatics who killed the Palestinian boy were condemned. And they will be in jail for a long period of time.

This idea that there is moral equivalency or even as so many of the newspaper writers seem to write, oh, both sides are at fault, is just wrong, wrong, wrong.

MATTHEWS: Let`s talk what is going on in domestic politics here. You wrote an op-ed today in "The New York Times" calling for an end to the partisan primary system in favor of what you call a top two primary system.You wrote -- quote -- "The partisan primary system which favors more ideologically pure candidates has contributed to the election of more extreme officeholders and increased political polarization. It`s become a menace to governing. A top two primary system would encourage more
participation in primaries and undo tendencies toward default extremism. It would remove the incentive that pushes our politicians to kowtow to the factions of their party that are most driven by fear and anger."

So, it`s interesting that you point out that both parties suffer from the fact that the 10 percent at either end, left and right, are the ones that show up in primaries, when the others don`t and therefore dictate the ideology of the party.

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SCHUMER: Exactly.

Chris, yes, I get asked all the time what accounts for all this polarization? And probably the number one thing that accounts for it is the primary system, where the 10 percent on the far right vote in Republican primaries, the 10 percent on the far left vote in Democratic primaries.

And it`s very hard for people to move to the middle, more so in legislative bodies like the House or the state legislatures, not the Senate, thankfully, where there is redistricting. And in 90 percent of the districts, you never -- the only contest you face is the primary.

Republican candidates and officeholders just lean right. Democratic
officeholders lean left. And getting things done in the middle, which used
to happen all the time, doesn`t.

The top two primary system forces the candidates to go to the middle for some votes and, to boot, independents, who now in most states can`t vote in any primary, could vote in the primaries. In the states that it`s happened, we have had governing in the middle.

The classic is California. Jerry Brown has been able to run a middle-of- the-road government. The legislature has backed him up in what used to with be one of the most polarized legislatures in the country before the people put this system in place on -- through initiative on their ballot.

MATTHEWS: Well, I like the idea. And thank you so much, Senator Chuck Schumer, calling for some kind of new way of picking candidates so they don`t all come from the far left or the far right.

SCHUMER: Hey, our system is -- our system is racked with polarization. This is a good way to end it.

MATTHEWS: Thanks so much for joining us tonight.

SCHUMER: Thanks, Chris.

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