MSNBC "The Ed Show" - Transcript: Overseas Jobs
Interview
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Let me bring in Senator Bernie Sanders tonight from Vermont. Senator, great to have you with us and thank you for doing this, it`s long overdue. What do you want to say to these corporate deserters? What has to happen, Senator?
BERNIE SANDERS, (I) VERMONT: What has to happen is they can`t enjoy the benefits of being an American company if they`re going to desert us and go to Ireland or got to the UK to take advantage of tax benefits in those countries. And I think the American people are catching on that many of these major countries, major corporations have no allegiance to the United States of America, their only allegiance is to the bottom line. And if they can move to China to save a few bucks until American workers are out on the street, that`s OK. If they can move to the UK or Switzerland to avoid paying taxes in the United States, that`s OK.
And what we have to say is, "Sorry, that really is not OK." Being a deserter, a corporate deserter and betraying your own country is really not OK. So if you want to move abroad, number one, and you`re making profits here in the United States, you`re going to pay your fair share of taxes.
You can`t put your money in the Cayman Islands and pretend that doesn`t exist and we`ve got legislation to do that.
But now, in terms of the Defense Authorization Act, what we`re going to do is say, "If you want to call Switzerland or the UK your home, guess what? You`re not going to be bidding on defense contracts for the United States government." And I would generalize that to say you`re not going to bid on contracts for any agency in the (inaudible). Walgreens for example, who you mentioned, who wants to hook up with a Swiss company. They had billions of dollars every year from Medicare and Medicaid. You can`t get money from Medicaid and Medicare if you want to be a Swiss company. And the other thing that I would say ...
SCHULTZ: Yeah.
SANDERS: ... is that there are huge loopholes that these guys are already taking advantage. One out of four corporations Ed, in America pays zero in taxes, including GE, Verizon and Boeing.
So these guys are not being beaten up with horrendous tax rates, they`re just trying to make an extra nickel at the expense of the American people.
SCHULTZ: Well of course, they`re going to come back and make the case of the corporate tax rates in this country are way too high and they`ve been forced to do this to keep their profits, which absolutely is hogwash. But the numbers are staggering. $20 billion is a lot of money. Are you going to get any help from Republicans on this at all? Because this is somewhat of an economic populous move, no question about it.
SANDERS: Well, I surely hope so. And Ed, your point about what they will be saying about high tax rates is exactly correct. Nominally on paper, corporate tax rates are 35 percent. The last study that I saw in 2010, the effective tax rate was 12.6 percent, that`s what they really pay. And as I mentioned, one out of four companies pays zero in taxes.
Look, these guys will give any excuse in the world to save a nickel and double cross the American people. And we`ve got to be firm on that.
SCHULTZ: Senator, I want to ...
SANDERS: The two things we got to do is -- yeah, go ahead. I`m sorry Ed.
SCHULTZ: Well -- no, the two things you`re going to do, go ahead, I didn`t mean to interrupt. Go ahead.
SANDERS: All right, number one, if you`re going to stash your money in a tax saving, it ain`t going to work, you`re going to have to pay taxes on your profit. Number two, if you want to go to Switzerland and you want to go to the UK, you are not going to bid on contracts with the United States government. That`s what happens if you`re a deserter.
SCHULTZ: OK. All right. Senator, I want to switch subjects to the Veterans Affairs Committee which you chair that committee. This was a huge story not long ago with the story that unfolded in Arizona. Why can`t Congress get something done on this? What`s the holdup? And it doesn`t sound like anything is going to get done with the latest setback. Tell us about it.
SANDERS: Well Ed, we are working really, really hard on this. As we speak, my staff is working with the Republican staff to see if we can hammer out something in the remaining few days before the August break.
Here`s the issue. We have enormous needs in the VA. And the reason we have these long wait lines in Arizona or in elsewhere has a lot to do with the fact that we don`t have enough doctors, we don`t have enough nurses, we don`t have enough space in many cases, we don`t have the medical personnel we should.
So what I am fighting for is to make sure that the VA has the resources that it needs to deal with the fact that at the last five years, some two million more veterans have come in to the system, many of them with very serious problems like, PTSD and TBI, plus the fact that we have older population from World War II, Korea and Vietnam who need a lot of help as well.
So if we are serious about providing the help that our veterans need, we`ve got to do that in addition to emergency health, to make sure that we deal with the waiting lines immediately to some private care.
SCHULTZ: And of course, a story that we`re seeing now, 116 Democrats have signed on an appeal to stay in session until something gets done. You know, we can`t get anything done on immigration, nothing on minimum wage and even with our veterans who have served this country, it can`t move the Congress closer together to get something done. I mean, Senator, what does that say to the state of our government?
SANDERS: Well, it says that we are dysfunctional, that`s what it says. People have put their lives on the line to defend this country and many of
them have come back hurt, physically or mentally and we have an absolute moral obligation to say, number one, "This is a cost of war." You know, it`s not just planes and tanks and guns that are a cost of war. The cost of war is taking care of those people who have been hurt in that war. And if we don`t have the money to takecare of our veterans, then you should not be sending them off to war in the first place.
So right now, I got to tell you Ed, we are working really, really hard to see if we can come up with some ...
SCHULTZ: Yes.
SANDERS: ... compromise between the House Bill and the Senate Bill. And I hope from the bottom of my heart, that we`ll be able to do that.
SCHULTZ: Senator Bernie Sanders with us tonight on the Ed Show. Senator, thanks so much for joining us. Appreciate your time.
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