CNN "State of the Union with Candy Crowley" - Transcript: Ukraine
Interview
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CROWLEY: Joining me now, the Chairman of the House Homeland Security Committee, Michael McCaul of Texas.
Congressman, thank you for joining us. I think sometimes...
REP. MICHAEL MCCAUL (R), CHAIRMAN, HOUSE HOMELAND SECURITY COMMITTEE: Hi, Candy.
CROWLEY: ...the eastern border of Ukraine, as it -- as it borders Russia seems like a very faraway place, does not -- it is not a complete circle for Americans to say, what is going on there as shown up by the downing of this commercial jetliner, has any effect on the U.S.? Can you draw that line for us? Is U.S. security under any threat because of what's going on in Eastern Ukraine?
MCCAUL: Well, I mean sure it is. And I think this say game changer what happened, the downing of this commercial flight by separatists tied to Putin. I think Putin is responsible and complicit for what happened, but why is that important to Americans? Because I believe, as you asked Senator Feinstein that we are -- Mr. Putin is returning to a cold war mentality.
When I was over there you could see this nationalistic pride, a sort of resurgence to regain the glory of the old days of the Soviet Empire and so we're seeing that happen with Crimea being annexed. We're seeing that happen with the Russian speaking peoples and the Ukraine and all throughout the Baltic States now, where I think his long-term strategy is to bring back into the fold, if you will, the glory days of the empire, these Baltic nations with the Russian- speaking people. So, in addition to that, Candy, it's a different threat. It's
not the al Qaeda threat, but it's a threat of brute force. It's a threat that could involve submarine warfare. We know that Russia is more fully engaged in every aspect of that type of warfare, and that concerns me from the Homeland Security standpoint.
CROWLEY: And if you look at the situation as it now is, and that cold war mentality, that Senator Feinstein spoke about and you do as well, what possible use can Russia be to the U.S. in Syria or in Iran, two places of direct strategic importance to the U.S.?
MCCAUL: Well, the only thing, we have a few things in common these days with Russia, but I think the one thing we do have in common is a -- a sort of a distrust, the hatred for the terrorists. And I do think they can be an ally with respect to going after ISIS, going after al Qaeda, al Nusra in Syria, which as you know the foreign fighters present the greatest threat to the homeland with clean travel documents.
They've got Dagestan. They've got the Chechen rebels right in their backyard, and there (ph) the Boston bombers came out of that region as well. So, I think that's one common area of interest that we do share with the Russians. I would urge the administration to work on.
But I think with respect to what happened again the -- I think the game changer aspects to this, the wake-up call in terms of what has happened and I think it calls for tougher measures on Russia from the United States.
The president's got to lead. Remember the last time the Russians did this was the Korean airliner and Ronald Reagan was president. And Ronald Reagan rallied the world community against Russia and what it was doing. I think this president needs to do the same thing.
CROWLEY: Sure. Different time of course, and right in the midst of the cold war, when that happened. But let me ask you, when you look at the president's response to this, Secretary Kerry's response today, they have been pretty tough, but they've also been pretty tough on Europe and said, you need to step up to the plate.
So, is it Europe that is lagging behind? Because the president did solo institute some sanctions on the part of the U.S. alone without some of those European allies.
MCCAUL: Well, I think Europe obviously has a big play here, a big factor, but let's face it, the president of the United States is the only body (ph) -- only person who can stop Putin from this act of aggression, this plane out of the Ukraine region. I think that he's the one that needs to, you know, stand for, call for a cease-fire that the president of the Ukraine has talked about. He needs to reassure NATO.
You know, there's a crude oil ban that he could lift tomorrow to allow Europe and Ukraine to have crude oil to get off this Russian dependence which strangles them and not only would that be good from a stability foreign policy standpoint, it would also create a lot of jobs in the United States. And I think that's the kind of things the president ought to be looking at.
CROWLEY: Well, the president has in fact called for a cease- fire. The Russians have allegedly agreed to try to help on their end of things. He has instituted some pretty stiff sanctions against some individual banks, some individual energy companies within the Russian community.
So, isn't this now a matter of Europe stepping up to the plate, Germany very influential on Russia and its actions, right?
MCCAUL: Well, I think Germany and Europe need to stand with the United States, but really only the president of the United States can really truly lead that effort. I think that's what this president needs to do to stop this aggression, otherwise it's going to continue to go on.
Sanctions will only work if they're tough enough to deter conduct. And I don't believe right now they are tough enough, and they don't hit the energy sector as hard as we could be doing. And the Europeans have actually called for us to lift this crude oil export ban which I introduced a bill to do just that. I think that would go a long way in a practical standpoint. But overall 30,000 feet, you know, the president of the United States is in the position to stop this. He needs to be a leader. He needs to stand up like Reagan did against the Russians in 1983, when they downed -- the last time they downed a commercial airliner.
CROWLEY: Congressman McCaul, thank you so much for getting up so early this morning, all the way out there in Austin, Texas. Appreciate your time.
MCCAUL: Thank you, Candy. I appreciate it.
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