MSNBC "Ronan Farrow Daily" - Transcript: New EPA Regulations

Interview

RONAN FARROW, MSNBC: Congressman Chris Van Hollen joins me right now. He is Ranking Member on the House Budget Committee and [Co]-Chairman of the Renewable Energy and Energy Efficiency Caucus. Thank you so much, Congressman, for being here.

REP. CHRIS VAN HOLLEN: Great to be with you.

FARROW: So one number being bandied about a lot is that on Wednesday the U.S. Chamber of [Commerce] issued a report saying this measure would cost an annual drop of $51 billion in economic output and 224,000 fewer jobs every single year through all of the years that this is intended to roll out until 2030. As I said, that's getting a lot of play, a lot of Republicans are trotting out that number. You're the top Democrat on the House Budget Committee. What's the reality of the cost of this?

VAN HOLLEN: Well Ronan, those figures are just dead wrong. Interestingly, the Chamber of Commerce put out that report before they had even seen the rules that were just issued today, number one. Number two, the EPA immediately put out a report that discredited those Chamber of Commerce reports.

Look, the reality is that we need to address climate change and we need to do it in the smartest way. And the proposal the President has put forward will give the states lots of flexibility to address carbon pollution, and it will unleash more innovation and jobs in the clean energy sector. If you look at 2013, we had 23,000 new jobs created in the solar energy area alone. That was ten times the job growth than the underlying job growth in the economy, just in that sector.

So this has the potential for huge innovation and job growth. It is a historic day in terms of the fight against climate change, and I hope the country will rally around the President's proposal. And you know what? If Speaker Boehner and Mitch McConnell don't like the President's proposal, they should put their own plan on the table -- but they've been AWOL when it comes to any solution to this challenge.

FARROW: But Congressman, isn't the reality essentially that any measure that stands any chance of reversing climate change is going to come with some at least short-term economic downsides?

VAN HOLLEN: Well, in certain areas, you're going to have a transition. So for example, in those areas that use intense coal production, you're going to have to see a phase-down. They're going to have to transition to other fuels or use coal much more efficiently. The benefit of the approach the President has laid out here is he provides flexibility to the states. So if they don't want to switch from coal to natural gas, then they've got to make their coal operations much more efficient, or they've got to make sure that in that state people use energy more efficiently. So it's not a one-size fits all approach, and states are given lots of flexibility in meeting those targets.

FARROW: And you're contesting those numbers that --

VAN HOLLEN: But we can't ignore this problem. I mean, if we continue to allow for increased climate change, you're going to continue to have bad health effects. And secondly, you're going to continue to have more and more extreme weather events that are costing our local communities. So, we need to address this issue in the smartest way, and again, if Republicans in Congress have a better way, they should say something about it. But right now they've just had their heads firmly planted in the sand.

FARROW: And Congressman, with this just being a draft, and likelihood of lawsuits and some of the challenges on the Hill, do you think this proposal will survive?

VAN HOLLEN: I do think it will survive, because the Supreme Court has found that the President, the EPA has the authority to regulate carbon pollution emissions under the Clean Air Act. And I think the EPA has been very careful in making sure that the proposal that's laid out meets those criteria. And again, we'll have an opportunity for states to have input to the process, but I believe it will survive and it will be good for the country.

FARROW: There are so many real costs to this but there are also so many things at stake. We'll be watching this closely. Thank you so much, Chris Van Hollen. Appreciate it.

VAN HOLLEN: Thank you.

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