CNN "State of the Union with Candy Crowley" - Transcript: Israeli-Palestinian Conflict and the Crimean Crisis

Interview

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CROWLEY: With me now, senator Ben Cardin, Democrat from Maryland and Senator Barrasso, Republican from Wyoming, both members of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee. Thank you for being here.

BARRASSO: Thanks for having us.

CARDIN: Thank you.

CROWLEY: Lots of foreign policy floating out there. So I want to start with Israel and the Palestinians. Another -- and I don't know who anywhere is surprised that talks broke down because it's sort of the message of our time. Is it time for the U.S. to spend less time in the Middle East because it has been pretty intensive for nine months particularly -- using Secretary of State John Kerry's time. Is it time now to pivot to other places of more importance which certain lip includes the Pacific where the U.S. economic future is?

CARDIN: We've got to do both. We got to be very active in Asia as the president is just coming back from Asia and has (ph) rebalanced Asia, very important to the United States. Middle East is very important to the United States. So we have strength to be able to be very active in moving forward with the peace process in the Middle East and to also deal with the problems around the world.

CROWLEY: But you know, Senator Barrasso, there are problems in the Middle East and it's very important. But we're now less dependent on foreign oil, just speaking strategically. We're less dependent on foreign oil, but more than that, the problem really is in Syria and our relationship with Iran, not primarily Israel and the Palestinian dispute. And if you settle those Middle East peace talks and you got an agreement between the Palestinians and Israel, it doesn't settle Syria and it doesn't settle Iran.

BARRASSO: And Iran continues to be a huge threat to the people of Israel and specifically I think we have not progressed with the Iranian peace agreement that the president has been focusing on, specifically 83 senators have written to the president about what needs to be in an agreement. I doesn't seem like they're coming back to that, so nuclear armed Iran to me continues to be the bigger pivotal point in that area of the world.

CROWLEY: I must be reading different things than you are. There was an editorial today I believe in "The New York Times" about all the progress being made and that Iran has, in fact, cut back on its stockpile of 20 percent enriched uranium and on its ability to make it. Is that not so? Is that not where this deal is going?

CARDIN: I think Iran is very important, that we continue to put (ph) -- keep the pressure on Iran. We don't know yet. We're in the process in negotiating an agreement. It's important that Iran does not have the capacity for a breakout of a nuclear weapon within weeks or months as the prime minister indicated. So that's have a very important part.

But let me get back to your previous question. I talk to leaders in the Middle East -- a lot of Arab leaders all the time. They are concerned about the Palestinian-Israeli peace process. I think what Mr. Netanyahu said, we need to have two states, one representing the Palestinians, one representing a Jewish state. So it's important that we keep focused on the Palestinian-Israeli issue.

But also Syria, as you mentioned, is an area, we have to continue to make sure not only that they don't have chemical weapons, but that we have a government that's responsible to all the people in Syria.

CROWLEY: You all - I hope heard Tony Blinken he was on earlier in our show, who said, all the allies are on board Western Europe and others. And there will be new sanctions this week. Here is what we know. The administration keeps saying and other western partners keep saying it has really hurt the Russian economy, but it hasn't budged Putin. So do these sanctions have to be more aimed at the man himself, and what would that look like, a sanction against the man himself?

CARDIN: Well, you need to have sanctions against those who are the closest to President Putin.

CROWLEY: Some of the sanctions earlier did, right?

CARDIN: Absolutely. They do. They're specific to individuals who are in the elite class of Russia, that have great influence on Mr. Putin. They're paying a price. They need to be involved in international commerce and we're making that much more difficult. There is a price that's already been paid and it's having its toll.

It's having its toll on the Russian economy. It's having its toll on individuals. There is now going to be a next round of sanctions. The good news is we have a unified international community. G-7 is unified in its resolve.

CROWLEY: And yet for all of that unity, the first round just didn't seem to face him at all.

BARRASSO: You know, when I was in the region this past week, Candy, visiting with leaders in that area. Sanctions need to be consequential. And what we hear are sanctions against individuals. I think we need to go further against that, sanctions against Russia in terms of their military activities, in terms of arms, in terms of finances, in terms of energy.

I have an editorial today with other senators in "The Washington Post" specifically about sanctions, not just about individuals, but also about Russia itself. And then what we need to do long-term in terms of an energy strategy to use our own energy resources as a geopolitical weapon against Putin.

CROWLEY: It's not, in fact, U.S. policy just opposing Russia and trying to push Russia back from Eastern Ukraine. It's also about bolstering up a very young government. The U.S. has been there with all kinds of aid, but Tony Blinken and others I've talked to give no indication that they will give Ukraine any lethal weapons.

And basically it's like they can't win so we can't really give them lethal weapons. And yet you have western observers being held down by pro-Russian forces. How does Ukraine help that situation if the U.S. doesn't help them with lethal weapons?

CARDIN: Well, our first priority is to build the Ukrainian economy. Because we know that they have to be able to deliver for their people. So the IMF arrangements to bolster the economy, to deal with the energy sector, to deal with the poverty issues in Ukraine is critically important. But we're also working with Ukraine in regards to their military capacity.

We're working to make sure they have a trained military. No we cannot have any -- there won't be an equal balance between Russia and Ukraine, but we can help them in helping develop the capacity to have a more effective military presence.

CROWLEY: But they have an immediate military need, do they not?

BARRASSO: They have an immediate military need. Their prime minister has told me that --what they have inherited from the last leadership is a hollowed out military where nothing shoots or flies or works. They need weapons and I think we should supply them antitank, anti missile weapons. In terms of the energy component of this, they're held hostage by Russia. Russia increased the price of natural gas 44 percent when the people of the Ukraine -- just this past month. So Putin continues to use energy as both a carrot and a stick, not just for the Ukraine, but also in the Baltics as well as in Europe.

CROWLEY: I've got about 30 seconds left. So let me get you to chime in. No lethal weaponry from the U.S. as far as you're concerned?

CARDIN: I think we're helping not necessarily supplying lethal weapons but we're helping militarily from the point of view of preparation. The key thing is that you can't believe anything that Putin says. So we have to be prepared. We have NATO responsibilities for the countries on the borders. So there is a presence that we have in that region.

BARRASSO: But right now worldwide our enemies don't fear us. Our friends don't trust us and when we show weakness, it emboldens people around the world who are our enemies, whether they're in Iran, Syria, Russia or North Korea.

CROWLEY: Is this the fault of the Obama administration or is this just a changing world?

CARDIN: I think President Obama has been very strong. I think there's no disagreement in Congress in the steps he's taking. Plus he's gotten international unity which is critically important. A leader not only leads by example but also brings others and President Obama has done that.

CROWLEY: Senator Cardin and Senator Barrasso, thank you for both so much for being here.

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