MSNBC "The Ed Show" - Transcript: Keystone XL Pipeline
Interview
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SCHULTZ: For more, I want to bring in Bernie Sanders Senator from Vermont. Senator,
good to have you with us tonight.
I know your position on this, but I want your thoughts on TransCanada using the State Department bullet points and report to make their case for the pipeline. What are your thoughts on that?
SEN. BERNIE SANDERS, (I) VERMONT: Well, I think it`s an outrage. I think you have raised very important points about the irreversibility of the kinds of damage that we fear could happen.
If there is a major oil spill into an aquifer at a time when we have real water problems in America, this could be an unmitigated disaster. But there is another issue out there, Ed, that is even broader and I think more significant and that is that the scientific community has been extremely clear. Climate change is real. Climate change is caused by man-made activities. Climate change with or without oil leaks is already causing
massive damage in our country and around the world in terms of drought, in terms of flooding, in terms of wildfire, in terms of extreme weather disturbances.
In my view, we have a moral obligation, our generation does, not to leave the planet for our children and grandchildren in an unhabitable way.
SCHULTZ: Totally agree. And that really is the fundamental issue here.
What kind of -- what are we doing with the planet and what are we leaving for the next generation.
SANDERS: Exactly.
SCHULTZ: And if there is a terrible mishap, can we reverse it and the answer is no.
SANDERS: That`s right.
SCHULTZ: Senator, last night, you were part of this, you held an all-night even with other Senate Democrats to discuss climate change.
Now, Mitch McConnell took sometime to criticize you and the rest. Here it is. I want to play it.
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SEN. MITCH MCCONNELL, (R-KY) MINORITY LEADER: There`s a depression in Appalachia, an absolute depression. Families are losing work because of government attacks on the coal industry. Communities are hurting.
And tonight, you`re going to hear 30-hours of excuses from a group of people who think that`s OK.
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SCHULTZ: Senator, your response to that.
SANDERS: I mean, he`s wrong in so many ways. The reason that the coal industry is in decline is that electric companies now have found a cheaper source of fuel in terms of gas. But the more important point where he is wrong is not only that we have a moral imperative to transform our energy system away from fossil fuels and greenhouse emissions. If we are smart, if we use the American ingenuity that we know we have, we can create huge numbers of new jobs in terms of energy efficiency and weatherization all over this country and .
SCHULTZ: Yeah.
SANDERS: . people living in buildings and in homes. Well, he is just going right through the walls and the roots. We can create jobs in solar, in wind, in geothermal, in many other areas. We can lead the world. Help China, help India, help Russia moving that direction. So .
SCHULTZ: Yeah.
SANDERS: . McConnell is wrong in a number of ways.
SCHULTZ: Senator, not to be critical but I think this is a very profound point. There has not been a uniformed statement from the Senate Democrats on the pipeline yet. I think it`s great that last night that there was this, you know, presentation on the Senate floor, it happens very seldom in American history, but how can any senator try to tackle climate change while supporting the pipeline? And why don`t the Senate Democrats who were against the pipeline send a clear message to the president, "We do not want this. You need to set the bar here that we say no to the oil companies."
Your thoughts, Senator.
SANDERS: I agree. And some of us have done just that. You know, the president has -- I know in his heart understands the significance of climate change and the need to transform our energy system. He`s put a whole lot of money into weatherization and energy efficient projects.
But I think that people all over this country will really be scratching their heads if the president approves a pipeline which encourages the dirtiest form -- excavation of the dirtiest form of oil which kind of continues to promote fossil fuels. It will be a real contradiction in terms of everything that he has said.
So I am working with a number of Democrats when you saw last night .
SCHULTZ: Yeah.
SANDERS: . was maybe a first step, but we`re going to do everything we can to kill this pipeline, to transform our energy system and get the president onboard.
SCHULTZ: Senator, does that mean that there is going to be a unified statement from the 28 and maybe more Democrats that stepped up?
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SANDERS: Well, you know, you got 55 people in the caucus, Ed. Now, I can`t guarantee that every one of them will be onboard, but a number of us will.
SCHULTZ: Senator, would you consider going to Nebraska?
SANDERS: To take a look at the impacts of a leak .
SCHULTZ: Yes, sir.
SANDERS: . on their aquifer? Yeah, I would. Yeah.
SCHULTZ: Senator Bernie Sanders, good to have you with us tonight on the Ed Show. I appreciate it very much.
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