CNN "State of the Union with Candy Crowley" - Transcript: Crisis in Crimea

Interview

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CROWLEY: Senator Durbin, I imagine you're going to disagree, at least, with the description of how President Obama's handled things.

SEN. DICK DURBIN, (D) ILLINOIS: Well, of course, I disagree. You would expect the president of the United States to speak out against what Putin is trying to achieve here. We got to remember that Putin developed his diplomatic finesse as the head of the soviet secret police. And his idea of invading countries occupying them and really daring people to go to war is the tactics -- those are the tactics of a bully.

And, what the president has done is speak out against them. This notion of taking him out of the G-8 has already been suggested by the administration, some members, and I think it's the right thing do. Now, what Congress has to do, what the Senate should do, quickly, is a resolution condemning what Putin has done.

Second, saying that if Ukraine will stand up for real reform, that we're going to back them through the IMF and making it clear to our allies in NATO that that alliance is strong and neighbors of Russia that we are going to do everything in our part to discourage further aggression by Putin.

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DURBIN: Well, let me say, from my point of view, I agree with Lindsey when he talks about missile defense and strengthening NATO alliance. Now, let's be honest about it, the Crimea has been in a crucible for decades, if not centuries, over its identity and its future. And it was the Ukrainian government that invited the Russian government to establish a base agreement in Crimea. That complicates it as does the ethnic breakdown within that region.

But we've got to make it clear to Putin that if there are Russian speaking people on the soil of another nation, that doesn't give him license to invade -- to protect him when there's no obvious threat against him, because there are Russians spread all over the former soviet empire there in countries that are today very free, very democratic, and very friendly to the United States. We've got to draw the line.

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CROWLEY: Senator Durbin, your reaction to what Congresswoman Kaptur had to say?

DURBIN: Well, I disagree with Marcy. I think we need to be sensitive to the Russian populations in Crimea. As I've said, this is an historic reality. But the notion that Putin can send in, as Lindsey graham says, 15,000 troops or whatever the number in order to so-called protect them just defies the sovereignty of Ukraine and especially the point he made, an agreement, which these Russians were signatories to back in 1994.

DURBIN: I would say to my friend Congresswoman Kaptur, we can be sensitive to the Russian reality in Crimea but don't give license to Vladimir Putin to invade the sovereign nation.

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CROWLEY: Back now with senators Durbin and Graham. I want to take the opportunity to talk to both of you about the new budget proposal from Secretary Chuck Hagel out of the Pentagon which basically would cut the army, kind of World War II levels, cut back on equipment, getting ready for kind of a new sort of warfare. I feel as though I have heard that for some time. I imagine that both of you agree -- are going to agree it is too much, but what would you suggest in terms of cuts in the Pentagon? Senator Durbin?

DURBIN: I can tell you that we live in a dangerous world. The United States has the strongest military in that world and we want to make certain we always have military that can keep America safe and free --

CROWLEY: Would these cuts make it less -- would these cuts that are being proposed make it less powerful?

DURBIN: Well let me address one point you made, Candy, at the opening. And that is that this is going to reduce our troop's strength below World War II levels. The men -- primarily men and women who served in the military in World War II were the greatest generation, the best soldiers on earth and they proved it. But today's soldier brings to battle more capacity, more capability and more firepower than those soldiers in World War II ever did. So numbers alone don't tell the story. We have to make certain we have the very best military, well trained and that we have the best technology to back up our national defense. But at the same time, acknowledge the reality. We are not going to -- I hope we're not going to engage in another land war like Iraq or Afghanistan, a long- term commitment that costs too much in human lives and treasure. And secondly, we've got to make certain that we reduce spending in all areas.

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CROWLEY: Senator Durbin, the last word to you. In fact, the "Wall Street Journal" made much the same point as Senator Graham did, saying, look, the purpose of fielding a large army is to minimize the temptation for aggression. How far is too far to cut back on troops?

DURBIN: Well, I don't know that we can pin our national defense strategy on the irrationality of leaders of North Korea because I don't know that we can ever build a national military that would deter some craziness by someone. But the question is can we protect the United States, can we protect our citizens and our interests around the world? And that means, for example, strengthening the NATO alliance, making certain that we do have troops in South Korea that are there, god forbid something occurs in the future.

I have great confidence of the men and women in the military and our technology to continue to meet that challenge. But we have to acknowledge the obvious. If we are going to reduce our debt for future generations, we are going to have to cut spending on the defense and non-defense sides.

CROWLEY: Senator Durbin, Senator Graham, thank you both for joining me this morning.

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