CBS Face the Nation

SHOW: Face the Nation (10:30 PM ET) - CBS

HEADLINE: E.J. Dionne, Leon Panetta and Mark Warner discuss political issues

ANCHORS: BOB SCHIEFFER

BODY:
BOB SCHIEFFER, host:

Well, we've heard a lot from Republicans lately. That always happens when Republicans control the White House and both houses of Congress. Today we're going to talk some about the Democrats and where their party goes from here. We have three leading Democrats, as it were. From Jackson, Mississippi, Virginia Governor Mark Warner; from Monterey, California, Leon Panetta, who, of course, was White House chief of staff when President Bill Clinton was in the White House; and E.J. Dionne, columnist for The Washington Post and somewhat of a theorist, I would say, and--and an expert on the Democratic Party.

We're going to kick around politics a little. Governor Warner, let me start with you. You're down there in Mississippi. You made a speech last night. And I noticed one of the things that you said was that people can like NASCAR and they can go hunting and they can still vote Democratic. You also said, though, that the party is not going to be able to move forward in every discussion if it turns out to be about abortion and guns. So I would ask you, does that mean that Democrats should abandon any kind of stance that calls for any kind of gun controls, like the ban on assault weapons, for example? Does it also mean that Democrats should no longer be pro-choice?

Governor MARK WARNER (Democrat, Virginia): No, Bob. I am pro-choice. I just think that we can't start every discussion with social issues dominating. I think throughout mo--much of America, particularly rural America and rural Virginia, where I did very well, Democratic message about opportunity, about allowing your children to stay in the community they grew up in and bring them a good job there is a powerful, powerful message. But if you get tied up in the social issues all the time as the--as the precursor, you never even get to that message of hope and opportunity.

SCHIEFFER: Well, you...

Gov. WARNER: My goal was--in our campaign, was to make sure that we understood that our cultural values as Virginia Democrats was no different than the values that the vast majority of Virginians had.

SCHIEFFER: Well, there's no question that you were successful in a place where it's hard for a Democrat to be successful these days. I guess the last time Virginia went a Democratic in a presidential campaign was 1964 if memory serves.

Gov. WARNER: That's right.

SCHIEFFER: But when you say you can't start every discussion with social issues, the problem, it seems to me, is that the Republicans will start the discussion with those issues when they take on Democrats. How do you--how do you get by that? How do you counter that?

Gov. WARNER: Well, I was--I laid out my position. I said I was a supporter of choice and that I was a supporter of Second Amendment rights. I actively went after, for example, gun owners. We had a very active Sportsmen For Warner organization. Then we moved right, more importantly, into the discussion of: 'All right. What can I do to appeal to people who live in rural communities? What message'--and our message of hope was, 'How do you make sure that your kid doesn't have to pick up and move away f'--in our state, for example, to northern Virginia--'to get a good job? How do you bring that economic opportunity, those job skills, to be prep--to prepare them for a knowledge-based economy?' That kind of message of optimism, that kind of message that say, 'Democrats are about providing that hope, those job skills, the preparation for a knowledge-based economy,' it's something I think we need to get back to talking about on a national level.

SCHIEFFER: Leon Panetta, your old boss, President Clinton, said that Democrats need to match the Republicans on national security and then go after them on--on other issues. We--we now have a president who's presided over a successful military operation. At least it appears successful so far in Iraq, but again, as we were talking about with Senator Biden, these weapons of mass destruction that were supposed to have been in Iraq have not been found as yet. I was wondering if President Clinton confronted some of these same things. What do you make of these intelligence reports? Do you think that the Republicans deliberately hyped them? Do you think there were mistakes there? You--you confronted some of these same intelligence reports, I would guess.

Mr. LEON PANETTA (Former Clinton White House Chief of Staff): Well, we did, Bob. We received many of the same intelligence reports during the early part of the Clinton administration with regards to Iraq's capacity on chemical and biological weapons and the fact that they had the capacity ultimately to try to work on developing nuclear weapons. So we were receiving, I think, very much the same kind of intelligence that this administration was receiving. But having said that, there's no question now that there clearly appears to be an intelligence failure, certainly in the facts leading up to the war. But I think you could say right now that by the mere fact that we're struggling to try to determine just exactly what happened to these weapons--where are they, where were they located--I think that in--in and of itself is an intelligence failure.

SCHIEFFER: Is it goo--just from standpoint of politics, is it good politics for the Democrats to raise questions about this?

Mr. PANETTA: I--look, there's no question that I think the Democrats have to work with the Republicans on the issue of determining just exactly what took place here. But I--I think what has to be stressed by Democrats is, yes, national security and the capacity of Democrats to be able to stand for protecting this country and protecting the security of this country. But more importantly, I think we have to show that our goal, as far as the United States, is to make it a world leader--not an empire but a world leader. And that's an area that I think Democrats can be very strong in. I think Bill Clinton showed that kind of leadership in working with our allies. I think that's the kind of message where Democrats frankly can score some points on the national security issue.

SCHIEFFER: E.J., you have been following Democratic politics for a long, long time. I--I would say you're an expert...

Mr. E.J. DIONNE (Syndicated Columnist): Bless you for that.

SCHIEFFER: ...for--frankly on Democratic politics. As I look at what's ahead for the Democrats over the--over the next year, I find that Republicans have created a very impressive infrastructure, if that's the word for it. You have--you have some very good people, public relations people who are pretty good at putting out spin. You have a lot of talk radio, cable television, research institutes lobbying networks that all come together and form quite a--quite an echo chamber, as it were, for getting the Republican message out. I'm not sure the Democrats have anything at this point that's as good as that on their side.

Mr. DIONNE: I--I think every honest Democrat that I've ever talk to says exactly that. One I talked to last week, a senator said that Democrats are 25 years behind Republicans in building this network of--that ranges from talk radio to research institutes. But I also think there's a problem in the leadership of the party. Democrats spend so much time saying who they're not that voters have lost a sense of who they are. You know, they keep saying--you know, Democrats say that they're not soft on crime, they're not soft on family values, they're not tax-and-spend liberals. Well, what are they? It sounds like they're running away from ghosts.

A CBS News-New York Times poll asked Americans whi--you know, wh--which party of each party do they have a sense of where to lead the country. Fifty-three percent said they knew where Republicans wanted to lead the country. Only 40 percent said that of Democrats. And I think that's a problem. If I could--if I could direct a question to your guests.

SCHIEFFER: Sure.

Mr. DIONNE: The--The New York Times after that poll interviewed a w--a 50-year-old woman called Wendy Satterford from San Diego. And this is what she said. She said, 'The Republicans have a clear view of what they want and are effective in promoting it. The Democrats don't have a clear vision. They seem afraid of the electorate and the apparent rising tide of conservatism. They don't seem to be able to speak out even for middle-of-the-road things.' I'd love to ask your guests: Wha--how do they respond to her because I think that's a fair critique.

SCHIEFFER: Governor Warner?

Gov. WARNER: Well, I--let me say where I think--I hope Democrats will be headed over the next 18 months. I think we do have to be strong on national defense. I think we can't walk away from that. I think we also have to articulate a more--better position frankly on homeland security than what the administration has. Now that means not only support for first responders but it also means finding a way to engage the public in homeland security. For example, in Virginia we created something called Virginia Corps. It's in effect a kind of 21st century civil defense group where we bring neighborhoods and communities into that whole activity of homeland security. I think it's very important.

I think we have to take a very strong son--stand on fiscal responsibility. The fact of the matter is with the--the administration's tax cuts, we're going to see deficits as far--far as the eye can see. The very same people who a decade ago were bemoaning these deficits as saying they were mortgaging our kids' future, now have fallen silent. Democrats have to be the party of fiscal responsibility. We also have to be, again, the party of some level of hope and opportunity. If we don't come back to the message that I think President Clinton and other Democrats have had in the past that said we're rushing into a knowledge-based economy. We've got to be the--the party that helps provide our people with the job skills they need to compete in that knowledge-based economy.

SCHIEFFER: OK. And quickly...

Gov. WARNER: So strong on the--internationally, fiscally responsible, and that message of hope and opportunity in terms of how you get the skills to compete in the 21st century economy. I think that's what Democrats ought to be about.

SCHIEFFER: Let's give Mr. Panetta one last word here.

Mr. PANETTA: Well, I think the key is that Democrats have to appeal to the average working family, to their concerns and to their hopes for the future. This administration clearly is leaning towards their interests, towards the wealthy. This tax cut is probably the greatest example of that. I think what Democrats have to represent is that we want to provide opportunity for everyone regardless of their status in our society. That's been the basic Democratic message; it has to continue to be.

SCHIEFFER: All right. Well, thanks to all of you. That was a very interesting go-around.

I'll be back with a final word in just a minute.

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