ABC "This Week with George Stephanopoulos" - Transcript: Unemployment Benefits and the National Security Agency

Interview

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PAUL: Good morning.

STEPHANOPOULOS: You guys are going to begin right away this week with that fight over extending benefits to the unemployed. President Obama in his weekly address yesterday said it's cruel to deny those benefits. He wants a vote right now. And the House Speaker John Boehner says he's open to it if the benefits are paid for.

Now I know you have been opposed to the extension in the past, but if Speaker Boehner's conditions are met, can you support the extension?

PAUL: Well, I think what's really cruel is to have an economy that doesn't have jobs in it. So we have to talk about what policy creates jobs. With regard to unemployment insurance, I've always said that I'm not opposed to unemployment insurance, I am opposed to having it without paying for it.

I think it's wrong to borrow money from China or simply to print up money for it. But I'm not against having unemployment insurance.

I do think, though, that the longer you have it, that it provides some disincentive to work, and that there are many studies that indicate this. So, what I've been saying all along, we have to figure out how to create jobs and keep people from becoming long-term unemployed. That's why I promoted the economic freedom zones which would dramatically lower taxes in areas where there's long-term unemployment.

STEPHANOPOULOS: But are you saying now that if this extension is paid for, you can support it?

PAUL: Well, what I have always said is that it needs to be paid for, but we also need to do something for long-term unemployed people, and that is, we need to create something new that creates jobs. So, what I would like to do, when we get back, is one, if we extend it, we pay for it. But, two, we add something to it that would create jobs. And so what I have been promoting are economic freedom zones, which any area that has unemployment one-and-a-half times the national average, we would dramatically lower taxes to try to spur and stimulate the economy there and create jobs.

STEPHANOPOULOS: Another big issue, this controversy over the NSA. You announced on Friday that you're going to be filing a class-action lawsuit against the surveillance program. Now this issue is already making its way through the courts. Two federal judges have already weighed in on it, so why is this lawsuit necessary?

PAUL: Well, the thing is, is that the point is, that one single warrant should not apply to everyone who has a cell phone in America. One of the things that Snowden released was a single court order to the company Verizon that all of their customers records would be looked at. That to my mind smacks of a generalized warrant. That's what we fought the revolutionary war over.

So, I think by bringing a class-action suit, where we have hundreds of thousands of people who come forward and say, my cell phone records are mine unless you go to a judge and ask a judge specifically for my records, you shouldn't be able to have a general warrant.

So, I think the idea of a class-action lawsuit with hundreds of thousands of participants really beats home and brings to the forefront the idea that this is a generalized warrant and it should be considered unconstitutional.

STEPHANOPOULOS: This issue of clemency for Edward Snowden also back in the news this week. The New York Times weighed in. They said that it should be considering. Here's what they wrote, "considering the enormous value of the information he has revealed and the abuses he has exposed, Mr. Snowden deserves better than a life of permanent exile, fear and flight. He may have committed a crime to do so, but he has done his country a great service."

I am trying to figure out where you stand on this. A couple of months ago we talked about this. You said that you didn't know enough then. But on Friday you said it might be a good idea for Edward Snowden and James Clapper, the head of national intelligence, who you believe perjured himself before the Congress, to share a prison cell.

So is clemency for Snowden now off the table as far as you're concerned?

PAUL: No, the reason I said that is to make a point that I can't -- I don't think we can't selectively apply the law. So James Clapper did break a law and there is a prison sentence for that. So did Edward Snowden.

I don't think Edward Snowden deserves the death penalty or life in prison. I think that's inappropriate. And I think that's why he fled, because that's what he faced.

Do I think that it's OK to leak secrets and give up national secrets and things that could endanger lives?

I don't think that's OK, either.

But I think the courts are now saying that what he revealed was something the government was doing was illegal.

So I think personally, he probably would come home for some penalty of a few years in prison, which would be probably not you look what James Clapper probably deserves for lying to Congress and that maybe if they served in a prison cell together, we'd become further enlightened as a country over what we should and shouldn't do.

STEPHANOPOULOS: You're smiling now, but you've taken a lot of heat for making that comparison. I just want to clarify here. So you're saying no clemency for Edward Snowden, but perhaps leniency?

PAUL: Well, I think the only way he's coming home is if someone would offer him a fair trial with a reasonable sentence. But I don't think the death penalty -- I mean we've had people all over the news, some of the same people who are defending James Clapper lying to Congress are saying off with his head or he should be hung from the nearest tree.

I don't think that's appropriate. And I think, really, in the end, history is going to judge that he revealed great abuses of our government and great abuses of our intelligence community and that James Clapper, in lying to Congress, really seriously destroyed the credibility of our intelligence agencies. And even though I actually give them the benefit of the doubt -- I don't think James Clapper is a bad person. I think he's a patriotic person who wants to stop terrorism. So I don't think he's a bad person.

But by lying to Congress, he's made us doubt and believe that maybe the government could be listening to our phone calls, even though they tell us they're not.

STEPHANOPOULOS: Let me turn to health care. Your opposition to ObamaCare has been no secret. But I understand now that the issue has also become personal for you.

Is it true that you've actually had trouble signing up for ObamaCare...

PAUL: I have.

STEPHANOPOULOS: -- and that you're not even sure your family is covered?

PAUL: At this point, I'm unsure. And the other day, I actually tried to get my son signed up through the Kentucky exchange, you know, that the Democrats have said is so good. And I have here my son's Medicaid card.

We didn't try to get him Medicaid, I'm trying to pay for his insurance. But they automatically enrolled him in Medicaid. For a month, they wouldn't talk to us because they said they weren't sure he existed. He had to go down to the welfare office, prove his existence.

Then the next thing we know, we get a Medicaid card.

So, really, most of the people in Kentucky are automatically being enrolled in Medicaid. I'm trying to pay for insurance and can't pay for it. And I'm uncertain now whether I'm enrolled DC and/or Kentucky. And it's a mess.

I keep getting an error code every time I go in. It will not let me edit my policy to try to make sure that my family is covered.

So, no, I think it's really -- this is an unfolding disaster that I don't think gets better any time soon.

STEPHANOPOULOS: A final question. I want to get you on the record on immigration.

Our next guest, Senator Chuck Schumer of New York, is confident that it's going to get done, a comprehensive bill will eventually get done this year.

Is he right?

I know you were opposed to the comprehensive bill earlier in the year.

But can you support Speaker Boehner's call for a series of measures on immigration?

PAUL: Yes. The reason -- and I've had this conversation with Senator Schumer before -- is that the reason it has failed is that the Senate bill that he proposed actually limited work visas and, I think, creates an incentive for more illegal immigration.

I'm for very expansive work visas. If you want to come to our country or if you're one of the 11 million who are here, I'm for giving you a work visa.

There is a debate, though, over citizenship and how quickly. I don't think the House is ready for citizenship.

So, really, the question to Democrats is will you go halfway?

Are you willing to try to bring the 11 million people who are here, bring them out of the shadows, give them an existence, try to have -- be more humane and try to get them a better situation for them?

That could happen tomorrow. The problem is, is the sticking point going to be we have to have immediate voting privileges for those who came here illegally?

I think that's more of a sticking point.

If the Democrats are willing to come halfway, I think we can pass something -- some meaningful reform that would help the 11 million who are here.

STEPHANOPOULOS: Well, Senator Paul, thank you very much

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