FOX "Fox News Sunday with Chris Wallace" - Transcript: Economy and the War on Poverty

Interview

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ROBERTS: Congressman, I think many people were appreciative of the idea of the "Promise Zones". Ted Cruz, though, came out and said, "All of America needs to be a 'Promise Zone' -- with reduced barriers to small businesses creating private sector jobs." Do you agree or disagree with the premise that the best way out of poverty is to have a job and the best way to create jobs is to create a playing field in which small businesses can flourish?

REP. CHRIS VAN HOLLEN, D - MD: Oh, John, there's no doubt about it, that the best way to pull people out of poverty is to get the economy kicked into full gear and all the effort that's go into that.

So, for example, I believe we got to reinvest in our infrastructure. You've got huge needs in term of rebuilding our infrastructure, modernizing for the 21st century. And you've got a lot of people unemployed in the construction area. So, that's a win- win. We'd like to work with our colleagues to do it.

But there is also a very important role to play in trying to harness resources to focus on places in greatest needs. We also need to make sure more people can share in prosperity. That's why we should increase the minimum wage, which hasn't been raised for a long time.

So, the president's promise is a part of an overall strategy to try to get the economy going and have more broadly shared prosperity.

ROBERTS: But there is a fundamental difference in ideology though of how to do this. Congressman Southerland, you said, looking back on Lyndon Johnson's war in poverty, it has failed and failed miserably. Do you keep putting more money into existing programs or do you -- as Senator Marco Rubio suggested earlier this week -- fundamentally reform everything, take a big pot of money that federal government has and give that to the states to administer in innovative ways? They're the ones on the ground who know what needs to be done.

SOUTHERLAND: John, I think you have to look at the indicators, the fundamentals of these programs. Look what causes poverty. We know, OK, that, two parent families is a child's greatest opportunity to avoid poverty.

We know that a good quality education with daily parent involvement, great choice reduces poverty. We know that a good job, you know, 90 -- of the people that have a job, OK, only 3 percent are in poverty.

So, if you have a job in this country, 97 percent chance that you're not going to be in poverty. And so, therefore, I think there's a better way, OK? If you look at the last 50 years, if you look at those fundamentals, I think it's long pastime to change direction.

ROBERTS: Congressman Van Hollen?

VAN HOLLEN: Let me just say -- I mean, there's this narrative out there that war on poverty has failed. The reality is we still have many Americans in poverty.

ROBERTS: It's about the same number.

VAN HOLLEN: But the reality is people are using a lot of misleading figures in this effort. The Council of Economic Advisors just released a report showing that we have cut poverty by one-third since 1967. The numbers that --

(CROSSTALK)

ROBERTS: -- percentage.

VAN HOLLEN: Well, that's the number of people as a percentage of the population. After all, I mean, our country has grown by 125 million people. So, the point --

(CROSSTALK)

VAN HOLLEN: Well, the point -- no, the point they've been making is that it's not succeeded because they ignore the benefits of some of the programs we've had, the earned income tax credit. I hope nobody would deny that helped people get out of poverty.

The food stamp program which Steve and his colleagues are trying to cut, they want to cut 4 million people off food stamps even though we just had a cut in November.

So, it's hard to listen to our colleagues on one hand saying they want to fight the war on poverty when they're taking all these initiatives to throw more people into poverty.

ROBERTS: What do you think of Senator Rubio's proposal to do away with the earned income tax credit that lumps some payment that people get at the end of the year and replace it with a federal wage enhancement?

VAN HOLLEN: I think the earned income tax credit has helped. In fact, I think it's a fact, that it's helped lift people out of poverty. So, I would be opposed to that.

That has been a bipartisan idea. Republicans and Democrats joined together to pass the income tax rate to reward work, to say to people if you work hard, you're at least going to earn an income that is above the poverty level. So that's a very important effort, as are these others.

So, we should not use numbers to say we're not winning the war on poverty because we don't count these programs. We're not winning because we still have 47 million Americans in poverty. But let's not ignore the progress that has been made.

ROBERTS: Congressman Southerland, you're getting the stuffing beat out of you in Florida second congressional district over your proposal to require work for people that have food stamps.

SOUTHERLAND: Well --

ROBERTS: But the bigger part of that, though, is the temporary assistance for needy families program was probably one of the most successful programs in this country and Congress has ever come out with. And it causes Republicans to apply that more broadly across the board in any poverty programs.

SOUTHERLAND: Right.

ROBERTS: Do you agree?

SOUTHERLAND: Well, look, we literally patterned, it's ironic that we patterned our bill as it applies to able-bodied individuals that are of working age, mentally, physically, psychologically able to work.

ROBERTS: Like the famous surfer we highlighted?

SOUTHERLAND: Yes, absolutely, that's eaten lobster in California.

Excluded children, excluded the disabled, excluding seniors, that they work, train for work, live for work or volunteer. And I think that they'd be productive. I think that over 80 percent of America agrees with that premise.

So, I think it makes sense. But it only applies, again, to the able-bodied individuals without dependents.

ROBERTS: Is that such a horrible idea?

VAN HOLLEN: Well, first of all, Steve is ignoring the whole other part of their proposal. Their proposal cuts $40 billion out of food and nutrition programs on top of the cuts in November. More than half the households there are working households with kids or households with seniors who are not expected to work.

And so, you're actually sending a very bad message about work when you're actually cutting food support for families that are working, which goes to the category --

ROBERTS: But his particular proposal that's getting beaten rather severely about. He is saying able bodied people who were able --

VAN HOLLEN: But there's one that says you have to have training programs, which is fine except for the proposal also cuts resources for training programs in the state. At the same time, you've got three people, you've got three people looking for every one job in this country, John.

ROBERTS: Quick response?

(CROSSTALK)

SOUTHERLAND: First of all, Chris is pretty good with numbers, OK? He's the numbers guy. But there are a couple numbers that I think are glaring. First of all, since this president took office, 6.7 million Americans have entered into poverty.

We know that 45 percent of single mothers live in poverty. And so, therefore, why -- why we are trying to push more policies that add to those numbers that if you look at the facts, this administration, we can do better. We must do better.

ROBERTS: Let me --

VAN HOLLEN: We can always do better, but it is also a fact that more than 8 million jobs have been created over the last 46 months. Isn't it enough? No. You still have three people looking for every job.

So we should not be cutting off extended unemployment benefits.

ROBERTS: Well, on that point -- let's listen to what Senator Harry Reid said about the Republican position on unemployment insurance extension on Thursday.

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SEN. HARRY REID, D-NV, MAJORITY LEADER: You have to give them credit. They're doing their best to divert attention away from this issue. This is opposition and it's cold hearted to extend unemployment benefits. It's a very tough position to defend.

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ROBERTS: Correction, that was Wednesday.

But, Congressman Van Hollen, are Republicans cold hearted? All they want to do is they want to pay for some of the employment insurance extension?

VAN HOLLEN: No, that's not the case. A lot of people are still opposed it to. We put forward a proposal in the House before we took the winter break to pay for it by cutting excessive ag subsidies. We were denied an opportunity to even vote on that measure.

The reality is, you know, you listen to people like Rand Paul. They take the insulting position that these people are sitting back taking unemployment compensation when they're required to look for work.

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