NBC "The Rachel Maddow Show" - Social Security

Interview

BREAK IN TRANSCRIPT

And this week in the United States Senate, Senator Elizabeth Warren of
Massachusetts made a widely circulated Senate floor speech, making the case
that the era of fighting about cutting Social Security is over. And now it
is time to talk about expanding Social Security. At the very least, that
used to be Beltway heresy.

Senator Warren now joins us.

Senator, thank you very much for being with us. It`s nice to have you
here.

SEN. ELIZABETH WARREN (D), MASSACHUSETTS: It`s good to be here.

MADDOW: So why now? Why do you think now is the time to talk about
this when all we`ve heard from the very serious people in the Beltway for
the past forever is that it`s time to cut it.
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WARREN: Because it`s time to talk about reality.

You know, America`s middle class has been hammered for a generation
now. So, adjusted for inflation, the wages of the middle class family have
gone down. And yet, core expenses -- housing, health care, sending kids to
college have all shot through the roof.

Families cut back as best they could. They sent two people into the
workforce if they had a two-person household. And yet families couldn`t
make it.

So, they stopped saving. They went into debt. And now, as they`re
starting to hit their retirement years what we`re seeing are seniors who
are really in a financial squeeze. They have more debt. They don`t have
savings. They owe money on their homes.

The old defined pension plans that help protect them from their
employers. About 35 percent of the work force had them a generation ago.
Now, we`ve cut that in half.

So they`re really under a squeeze, and what they have got is Social
Security. So now we`ve got an America where about two thirds of all
seniors count on Social Security as their principal form of income.

And for 14 million Americans, Social Security is all that stands
between them and poverty. We have a retirement crisis in America. This is
no time. This is the last time to be talking about cutting Social
Security. This is the moment when we talk about expanding Social Security.

MADDOW: Are you talking about a narrowly targeted expansion that
would specifically try to steer more benefits towards seniors in need. So,
seniors at the lowest end of the economic spectrum, or do you think this
should be a broad, across the board rise in benefits even to seniors who
were better off?

WARREN: Yes. I think what we have to watch is we have to think about
two things on Social Security. The first one is, we absolutely need to
make the system secure over a long period of time. And I really want to
stop for a second and drill on that, because we have to remember all the
folks who talk about cutting Social Security, always start with the fact
that hey, listen -- you know, it`s just terrible what is happening with
Social Security.

It`s not. If we did nothing to Social Security, we go 20 years paying
at the same rate, and then after that we drop roughly about a quarter and
pay all the way to the end of the 21st century. So, what that tells us is
that we can make modest adjustments to Social Security and we could level
it out so that we`d be able to protect the benefits we`ve got.

But then is the time to start thinking beyond that. And it`s to think
about all the Americans who depend on Social Security.

Remember where I started this, Rachel. Two thirds of seniors right
now are counting on Social Security for their principal income. We have to
think about a broad approach to this.

MADDOW: The types of tweaks that it would take to make the program
fiscally sound in the very, very long-term that you`re talking about, I`m
assuming the basic one is raising the cap at which after which rich people
stop paying their Social Security taxes. So people at the higher end of
the economic spectrum just pay their Social Security taxes for a larger
proportion of their income.

That always seemed like a very simple fix to me, why has it always
been very politically radioactive?

WARREN: You know, it`s interesting part of it. What`s interesting to
me about is, Social Security, fixing it, to get it to work over the long
haul, when you remember how close it is now to working all the way through
the rest of the 21st century, there are a lot of fairly modest changes you
could make. You identify one of them. Another is how you bring more
people into the system so there are more payers into Social Security.

Another one is how you change some of the questions where parts of it
are bleeding out that shouldn`t. There are a lot of different dials you
could turn on getting Social Security leveled back out just a little.
That`s really all it takes.

What`s interesting to me is why we haven`t focused on that. Why the
conversation started with cutting benefits. That was always the direction
this went. And I just think it is fundamentally wrong.

We need to have a different conversation. We need to have a sensible
economic conversation about how to do it. It is not that hard.

But what we also need to do is remember, this is partly about math.
But it`s partly about our values. This is about what kind of a people we
are, what kind of a country we are trying to build.

I believe fundamentally, we are a people who believe that anyone
should be able to retire with dignity. And that`s what Social Security is
about. People who work all their lives and pay into it should have a
minimum level that they don`t fall beneath. That`s good economics. But
the point is, it is who we are. It is the kind of country we are building.

MADDOW: That argument that u are making about our American values,
but also what you want to fight for politically, is -- I know you don`t
want to have this conversation but it is why people are talking about you
as a national figure and not just a senator from Massachusetts and the
Democratic Party. I`m not going to ask you the facile question about
whether or not you want to run.

But do you believe the types of values you articulate are the future
of the Democratic Party. Do you feel at home in the Democratic Party? Or
do you feel like your fight is partly with your own side to get your fellow
Democrats to make these issues a priority?
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WARREN: I think this is -- this is our moment. I think we have come
to understand that, you know, America changes much of the time. It`s in
increments. It is in small pieces.

But we truly have come to the crossroads now. And there are two very
different visions of how we build a future.

The Republicans have made theirs clear. You know, you protect those
at the very top. You make sure they`ve got the maximum number of loopholes
and subsidies. And, you know, everyone else, so be it. In other words,
their vision is -- I got mine, the rest of you are on your own.

Our vision is different. It says that we really do make these
investments together. And when we make these investments together, we
build a strong future. Not just for some of us, but for all of us.

The pieces are tied together. We`re here tonight to talk about Social
Security. And that is what I want to attack about. I`m glad to fight for
it.

But remember, the pieces we`re talking about are tied together. It`s
about fighting for education, our kids who are being crushed by student
loan debt. It is, it is about fighting for the minimum wage. It is about
fighting for dignity when people retire.

It is about fighting for a world that we build together because we
believe that when we do that, we all got a better chance. We`ve all got a
fighting chance to make something. And that`s what we`ll do.

MADDOW: Senator Elizabeth Warren of Massachusetts -- thank you very
much, very much for your time tonight. It`s always great to have you here,
ma`am. Thank you very much.

WARREN: Good to be here.

MADDOW: All right.

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