CNN Lou Dobbs Tonight - Transcript

CNN Lou Dobbs Tonight - Transcript

DOBBS: Joining us now from Washington, D.C., Congresswoman Zoe Lofgren of California who supports the Dream Act, and Congressman Virgil Good of Virginia. He opposes it. Good to have you both here.

REP. ZOE LOFGREN (D), CALIFORNIA: Thank you, Lou.

PRE VIRGIL GOODE ®, VIRGINIA: Thank you, Lou.

DOBBS: Let me start with you, Congresswoman. Why should illegal aliens be given benefits that are denied other U.S. Citizens?

LOFGREN: Well, I think the basic premise is you don't visit the sins of the father on the son. And the way the act is written, it recognizes that there are children who basically had no decision on whether they would come to the United States at all who have lived here for many years. And the idea is that since their parents have been here paying property taxes, if they can go to college, that would be a good thing for them and for us. And I think it's the wise thing to do.

DOBBS: Let me ask you something because, is there, then, a requirement that these students, illegal aliens themselves, demonstrate that their parents have paid property taxes, have paid income taxes, and paid into Social Security?

LOFGREN: Well, the-in the act, it requires that the student have come before they were 16, that they have lived at least five years in the United States, they graduate from high school. And the assumption is, since small kids don't live here by themselves, that they're here with a parent or guardian.

Frankly, if you live in either rental housing or buy them, you're paying property taxes either through your rent or through your bill itself. So you're paying taxes and sales taxes and the like. But the real issue is, you've got kids-and I know some of these kids-my kids went to school with in California who didn't make the decision. And here they are-I'll give you an example...

DOBBS: No, no.

LOFGREN: ... of a kid. It's so compelling because it really tells the story.

DOBBS: Very quickly if you would.

LOFGREN: This kid came when he was in second grade with his parents. They came actually with a visa. The parents had been pursuing which ultimately they did not get. This kid does not speak the language where he came from, doesn't even remember his home country. He got 800 on the math SATs, 795 on the English. You know, he's been here basically his whole life. His parents have been paying taxes. He can't go to college. I don't think that makes sense for America.

DOBBS: What do you think, Congressman Goode?

GOODE: The Dream Act, like a number of other bills in the House and in the U.S. Senate, if passed, will only encourage more illegal immigration. Illegal immigration is swamping the United States. We have millions cross the border annually. They're estimated over 12 million people in the country illegally. It's a huge strain on the resources of this country, and this is a benefit that should not be extended to illegals. In Virginia, an illegal alien would get in- state tuition, and a next-door neighbor that lived across the line in North Carolina would have to pay the full freight. It doesn't make sense. We need to stop, in this country, rewarding the illegal behavior. Until we take a firm stand against rewards for coming into the country illegally, we're not going to stop the problem.

DOBBS: Congresswoman Lofgren, how do you respond to Congressman Goode's concerns? Because, they're shared by a lot of people.

LOFGREN: Well, I'll tell you what, in the Dream Act, it doesn't say-all it says is each state can make their own decision on in- state tuition, and I think that's problem. But I think it's worth noting that there's a lot of times where you can have a family-a guy I know, I was just discussing the other day, he's a legal resident. He's got a U.S. citizen 13-year-old. He's wife is a legal resident. He's got a 21-year-old son without any papers and no way to get his kid legal. So, you know, he's paid taxes his whole life.

I think there needs to be a way to allow people to become educated if the they've paid taxes, they've been here a long time. And I think, actually, we need to think about young people are not making the decision on whether to come here. They're just coming along with their parents, which is why so many of the religious institutions, the Lutherans that I belong to, the Catholics and others have said, we should support this.

Whatever you think on the overall immigration issue, and I think it's a scandal. We authorize 2,000 Patrol Agents and you know what the president put in his budget, money for 100, 100. So, I mean, lets look at where the real problem is here.

DOBBS: Well, what do you say, Congressman Goode? This Dream Act is, on its face, it seems to me, addressing an issue that is of some concern. It is also quite clearly on its face inequitable. But there are so many inequities and frankly contradictions and failures within our immigration policy, it's hard to get to-to get to at least a beginning point, isn't it?

GOODE: The fact is, the Dream Act will encourage more illegal immigration because it rewards illegal behavior.

DOBBS: Right.

GOODE: It says if you come into this country for five years, you're going to get in-state tuition. You're going to get benefits. You're going to be eligible for Pell Grants. You're going to...

LOFGREN: Actually, it doesn't say that.

GOODE: If you're-it grants them permanent resident status. And if it does that, they would be eligible for those other things. What they need to do is to go back to the country from which they came, apply like everyone else, and get in line. And not be moved to the head of the line by illegally coming into the United States.

DOBBS: As we saw in Katharine Barrett's report, there's great resentment on the part of students who have both have immigrated and been naturalized in this country, to those who are simply jumping, as you put it, the line, who frankly are just crossing a border illegally.

But let me ask you both this. Why is there such outrage-outrageous, it seems to me, and utter cowardice on the part of our elected representatives, the United States Congress and the United States Senate to deal honestly with a question that in every opinion survey, every poll taken shows there is-there about 70 percent saying we have to have security of our borders, we have to fix illegal immigration, and this has to stop.

Why is it there isn't courage amongst the 435 members of Congress to deal with this issue and the 100 senators?

LOFGREN: Lou, let me say this. I do think that we are terribly deficient in control of our borders. And we actually have complained considerably about the lack of Border Patrol agents that is in the president's budget. And frankly, it ought to be more than the 2,000 authorized, and we need more technology.

On the other hand, we changed the immigration act in 1996. And I think people would be very surprised. You say, well, they ought to stand in line and get a visa. We made it almost impossible in many cases for the immediate relatives-I'm talking spouses even minor children, and certainly young adult children of American citizens to even qualify for a visa. So if we would fix some of those things so that most families to be together, as most American's think they should be...

DOBBS: We're going-Congresswoman, I'm sorry, we've got-Congressman Goode, you've got to get the last word for 30 seconds. We're out of time.

GOODE: Thank you, Lou. I would ask Zoe to vote for my bill to put troops on the border. That will help secure our borders. We need a lot more Border Patrol.

LOFGREN: Well, no one thinks it's a good idea. Not the military and not the security people.

GOODE: And it's-it's passed the U.S.

DOBBS: Folks, we're going to have to break off there. Congressman Goode, Congresswoman Zoe Lofgren, we thank you both for being here.

LOFGREN: Thanks, Lou.

GOODE: Thank you. Thank you for addressing the issue.

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