CNN "Erin Burnett Outfront" - Transcript: Navy Yard Shooting

Interview

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I want to bring in now OUTFRONT, Republican Congressman Michael McCaul, chairman of the House Homeland Security Committee.

Chairman McCaul, you just heard that report from Drew Griffin, and I am trying to figure out exactly where to start with you on this. But let's I guess start with this issue, how is it that the Navy, to begin with, could give this person secret clearance, security clearance, when he had been arrested for gun violence in the three years prior to that time? How could that happen? Is that acceptable in any situation?

REP. MICHAEL MCCAUL (R-TX), HOMELAND SECURITY COMMITTEE: I don't think it is. I think your prior piece illustrate all the problems that we're finding with these clearances and who we're issuing them to.

Remember, Alexis had three arrests, one prior to his clearance where he had anger fueled blackouts, according to the police reporting. Yet that was never picked up on. Then, we know that he had the V.A. mental health issues.

There was also a phone call to the Newport Police Department where he said he was hearing voices -- this is really not that long ago -- hearing voices and thought that people were following him around. My understanding that that was reported to the Newport military base, I don't know what was done with that information,

But as you point out, so many flags in the process, and yet those -- it just all slipped through the cracks, unfortunately.

BURNETT: And I can confirm for you, yes, our reporting is that the police in Rhode Island did call that Navy base. But we don't know at this point, either, what that Navy base did. How high up in the Navy that report went about Aaron Alexis hearing voices.

I guess the question to you, though, Chairman McCaul, so what is wrong at the Navy? I mean, is this something you can blame on, oh, they're using outside contractors to do a lot of this screening? Whether it'd be for basic background checks or security clearance? Or is it something more significant than that?

MCCAUL: Well, there's a high demand for clearances on the outside, with the contractors. But clearly, in this case -- you know, here's the big issue, Erin, that concerns me, is we know that al Qaeda and terrorist groups would love to infiltrate or radicalize or find someone that has this access of these clearances to get on a military installation, and cause the type of tragedy that he caused.

So, I think we need a more heightened state of alert when it comes to who we're giving these clearances out to. This is a secret level. This is the U.S. federal government trust of an individual with classified information, but also access to a very sensitive military installation, and yet it looks like there's not enough precautions here in place.

BURNETT: And what about the issue here -- I mean, I'm wondering if you think it's become, you know, too dominated by lawyers and legalese, or how this could have happened?

Because you know, he has all these problems. He doesn't show up for work. He has misconduct. He has gun violence. Not only does he have security clearance, that's one issue, but then when he leaves the Navy, he gets to keep that security clearance and gets an honorable discharge.

When most people look at the list of things this guy did there is no way he deserved an honorable discharge. He deserved a dishonorable discharge most people would say. And the Navy started the proceedings to at least try to get him one level below honorable and they gave up because the laws got in the way.

Now, that doesn't excuse them allowing him to keep the security clearance, I get all that. But what about this issue of the fact that common sense says this guy should have had a dishonorable discharge and the laws got in the way?

MCCAUL: Eight disciplinary actions that were swept under the rug, sounds a little familiar to me. I mean, the political correctness. We saw the same thing with Major Hasan in the Fort Hood shooting. He was promoted. He was passed along. There were signs along the way and no action was taken, and that's precisely the kind of case we want to stop here.

Bledsoe is the other military infiltration case, and yet nothing was done when these flags come up and they're just sweeping it under the rug.

BURNETT: So, when you say political correctness, what do you mean? The fact that there was a mental illness and they didn't want to discriminate based on that specifically as Colonel Kirby has said from the Navy?

MCCAUL: Well, I think there's just a tendency to want to not deal with the problem. It's real easy to just pass it along. Pass the buck along to another military base, or in this instance to a defense contractor. And just to get that problem out of my office and move it on without looking at the bigger picture here.

You report pointed out -- there are so many flags that have popped up in this case. If we just paid attention to one of them we probably could have stopped that shooting from happening.

BURNETT: Which is the sobering bottom line.

Chairman McCaul, thank you.

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