FOX "Fox News Sunday With Chris Wallace" - Transcript: ACA and Assad

Interview

CHRIS WALLACE, HOST: I'm Chris Wallace.

The House passes a budget bill but ties it to defunding ObamaCare, putting the government on course to shut down in just eight days.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

REP. JOHN BOEHNER, R-OH, SPEAKER OF THE HOUSE: Our message to the United States Senate is real simple: the American people don't want the government shut down and they don't want ObamaCare.

SEN. HARRY REID, D-NV, SENATE MAJORITY LEADER: The bill that defunds ObamaCare is dead, dead.

WALLACE: And right at the center of the debate, Republican Senator Ted Cruz, who is threatening a filibuster.

SEN. TED CRUZ , R - TX: I will do everything necessary and anything possible to defund ObamaCare.

WALLACE: Senator Cruz joins us live. It's a "Fox News Sunday" exclusive.

And, Syria submits an inventory of its chemical weapons program. Secretary of State Kerry calls on the U.N. to act.

JOHN KERRY, SECRETARY OF STATE: This fight about Syria's chemical weapons is not a game. It's real, it's important.

WALLACE: We'll discuss what happens next with former weapons inspector Charles Duelfer.

Plus, 12 people gunned down at Washington's Navy Yard. Now, lawmakers are calling for more aggressive background checks. We'll talk with Democratic Senator Claire McCaskill who is leading the charge.

And our power player of the week, Ivanka Trump, carving out her own niche in the family empire.

IVANKA TRUMP, DONALD TRUMP'S DAUGHTER: I represent the feminine voice of an otherwise more masculine brand.

WALLACE: All right now on "Fox News Sunday."

(END VIDEOTAPE)

WALLACE: And hello, again, from Fox News Washington.

Well, the clock is ticking. The government shuts down in just eight days unless Congress agrees on a bill to fund federal agencies. On Friday, the House passed a measure to keep the government going until mid-December but they also cut off funding for ObamaCare, and as you just heard, Majority Leader Harry Reid says that is dead in the Senate.

Joining me now from Houston, Senator Ted Cruz, who is leading the drive for this confrontation.

Senator, welcome back to "Fox News Sunday."

CRUZ: Thank you, Chris. It's great to be with you this morning.

WALLACE: You say and we just played a clip of it. We'll do whatever you can, including a talking filibuster, to block consideration of the bill that the House just passed. The problem is that you would be blocking a bill which you actually support, which would fund the government but defund ObamaCare. So, how are you going to get other Republican senators on board to block a bill that you support?

CRUZ: Well, let's be clear. Last week's vote was a tremendous victory. Just a few weeks ago, no pundit in Washington thought it was possible we would see the vote we saw on Friday. Last week, the House of Representatives voted to defund ObamaCare, and now, next week, as you know, the fight moves to the Senate.

And I think next week is a time for party unity. I think next week, all Senate Republicans, I hope, should come together and support the House bill.

In my view, Senate Republicans should stand united to stop Harry Reid from changing the House bill and, in particular, from inserting the funding from ObamaCare with 51 votes. That's going to be the fight procedurally whether he's able to use a straight party line vote, just Democrats, to put ObamaCare back.

And you know what? If Senate Republicans stand together, we can stop Harry Reid from doing it.

WALLACE: Well, I'm confused. Are you going to block consideration of the bill? Basically, the first issue is, are you going to allow consideration of the bill? And you can filibuster that after -- if you lose that, then a simple majority could take out ObamaCare. So, are you going to allow consideration of the bill, have an up-or-down vote on defunding ObamaCare, or are you going to block them from even taking a bill which you support?

CRUZ: Well, the first order of business is going to be to ask Harry Reid if he will agree to allow amendments to be subject to a 60- vote threshold. And that's typical in the Senate. We have a lot of amendments that are subject to 60-vote threshold.

Now, in all likelihood, he's going to say no because he wants to use brute political power to force ObamaCare funding through with just Democrats, exactly the same he passed the bill three years ago.

Now, if he does that even, then Senate Republicans have the tool that we always used when the majority leader is abusing his power, which is we can die cloture. We can filibuster and say we will not allow you to add the funding back for ObamaCare with just 51 votes and it takes --

WALLACE: Sir, if I may, you say this is brute political power. Other times, you said it's a procedural gimmick. It's Senate Rule 22, which has been around for years. It's part of the Senate rules and it says after you end -- you allow debate, after you take cloture, that you can pass an amendment by a simple majority. That's the rule.

CRUZ: Chris, what's good for the goose, it's good for the gander. You're right, that is one rule. But there is another rule that says it takes 60 votes to get cloture. And that's the reason the Senate, generally, on controversial votes, we work out an agreement for it to be subject to a 60 vote threshold because the majority -- if the majority is going to run the minority over with a train, the minority has the ability to stop them.

And so, if Harry Reid says, you know what, I'm going to run the Republicans over. I'm going to ignore the bill passed by the House of Representatives, I'm going to ignore the will of the people and I'm going to do this on a 51-vote threshold -- then, from my mind, it should be easy decision for Senate Republicans to stand united and to support House Republicans.

And I'll tell you, any vote for cloture, any vote to allow Harry Reid to add funding for ObamaCare with just a 51-vote threshold, a vote for cloture is a vote for ObamaCare. And I think Senate Republicans are going to stand side by side with Speaker Boehner and House Republicans listening to the people and stopping this train wreck that is ObamaCare.

WALLACE: OK. A couple of quick questions. First of all, you need 41 votes. You're one vote. You need 40 other Republican senators to go with you to block consideration of the House bill in the Senate. How many do you have right now, Senator?

CRUZ: Well, we don't know right now and this week, we'll determine that. Look, this has been a fast moving target. You know, just a few weeks ago, we didn't have any of the votes we needed in the House or in the Senate.

In my view all along was this going to be a long journey. This was going to be multiple stages. Stage was one unify the American people. And we've seen nearly 1.6 million Americans signed a national petition at dontfundit.com and called their representatives saying stop ObamaCare.

Stage two was what happened on Friday. The House voting to defund ObamaCare.

Stage three is next week, where Senate Republicans, it's now our turn to unify, to stand together with House Republicans.

And then, the next step -- look, this may end up going back to the House. And I hope and fully believe the House will continue the fight. And if we take this to the American people, I believe the next step after that is starting to get red state Democrats.

If you're a Mark Pryor, if you're a Mary Landrieu, running for reelection in Arkansas and Louisiana, and you start to get 5,000, 10,000, 20,000, 50,000 calls from your constituents, suddenly, it changes the calculus entirely.

But, Chris, that won't happen until we unify Republicans.

WALLACE: All right. But, Senator, here is the question everyone on both sides is asking in Washington, which is -- what's your end game? Let's say that you block consideration of any bill in the Senate. Or let's say that you lose, and the bill goes into the Senate and they take out ObamaCare and they send it back to the House -- what's your end game? Because the government is going to shut down a week from Monday.

CRUZ: Well, I don't want the government to shut down, the American people don't want the government to shut, and I don't think Harry Reid and President Obama should shut down the government.

Listen, if that happens -- if Harry Reid kills this bill in it the Senate, I think the House should hold its ground, and should begin passing smaller resolutions one department at a time. It should start, continuing resolution focused on the military -- fund the military, send it over, and let's see it Harry Reid is willing to shut down the military because he wants to force ObamaCare on the American people. I think that would be a very perilous decision for Harry Reid to make and if the House can keep driving this -- look, the House is the only body where the Republicans have a majority and so the House has to lead on this.

And I view my job and Mike Lee's job is providing as much support, as much air cover as we can for the House to stand up and lead. And I commend them for having than that last week.

WALLACE: Senator, I think -- excuse me, I think it's fair to say that you ticked off a lot of your fellow Republicans who feel you got them into this fight without an end game, without a strategy. I want to put some of their criticisms. They have gone on the record.

On the screen -- Congressman Tim Griffin of Arkansas wrote, "So far, Senate Republicans are good at getting Facebook likes and town halls, not much else. Do something."

Republican Congressman Pete King of New York calls you a fraud. "If he can deliver on this, fine. If he can't, he should keep quiet from now on and we shouldn't listen to them."

And Senator Bob Corker of Tennessee said this, "I didn't go to Harvard or Princeton," which you did, "But I can count."

Republicans, especially in the House, say that you are pushing them into a fight that you don't know how to finish. Senator?

CRUZ: Well, look -- there is lots of folks in Washington that can choose to throw rocks, and I'm not going to reciprocate. I'm going to do likewise.

Listen, let me tell you about a broader problem. A broader problem is, we have got career politicians in both parties in Washington who aren't listening to the American people. I spent the entire month of August traveling Texas, traveling the country, speaking to the people.

And American people are hurting because ObamaCare isn't working. It's killing jobs, it's driving up their health insurance rates, it's causing them to be pushed in to part-time work. It's causing them to lose their insurance.

And I'll tell you why an awful lot of people in Washington are unhappy -- because they are hearing from their constituents in overwhelming numbers, that their constituents are saying, stand up and fight. Stand up the principle. Don't have an exception for Congress and big corporations that doesn't apply to the American --

WALLACE: Senator, I want to pick up on that.

Democrats feel that you have given them the political high ground in all this. I want to play what President Obama said yesterday, last night, from the Congressional Black Caucus.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: You'd be willing to shut down the government and potentially default for the first time in United States history because it bothers you so much that we're actually going to make sure that everybody has affordable health care.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WALLACE: Senator, you're completely right. People don't like ObamaCare. On the other hand, by an even wider margin, people don't want to shut down the government to have this fight. In fact, there's a new Republican poll out late last week, a Republican poll, Winston Group, 71-23, don't shut down the government over this.

CRUZ: Well, it depends how the poll is phrase, and there are a lot of polls out there, Rasmussen, just last week, said a majority of Republicans now want ObamaCare defunded.

You know what's interesting? Last week, The Wall Street Journal, for the first time in years, found Republican are leading on health care -- Americans trust Republicans more than Democrats on health care.

And, Chris, let me suggest -- the whole reason why is because we've been standing up, leading the fight to defund ObamaCare. Voters have learned enough talk from Washington, stand up and do it.

And, listen, all you have to do is get out of Washington, D.C., and go listen to the American people. You talk to small businesses. They're laying people off. You talk to people that are struggling for jobs and finding their hours, forcibly reduced to 29 hours a week.

And, by the way, the people who are hurting, I hear from constituents every single day. Women with pre-existing conditions who are losing their health care because of ObamaCare. Their employers are dropping their health insurance coverage.

WALLACE: Senator, I hate to interrupt. We're almost out of time. I just want to ask you one direct question. You have a lot of valid criticisms of ObamaCare. We're going to ask Senator McCaskill in the next segment about those.

But if it comes down, if the Senate ping-pongs this back to the House, and it's a question keep going on the fight about ObamaCare or shut down the government, what's -- what's your position? Keep the government going or keep fighting about ObamaCare?

CRUZ: I believe we should stand our ground and I don't think Harry Reid and Barack Obama should shut down the federal government. Look, the House voted to fund the federal government. If Harry Reid kills that, Harry Reid is responsible for shutting down the government and she should listen to the American people, open the government, fund the government, but don't fund ObamaCare because it's hurting the American people. It's not working.

That's why the unions want out. That's why Harry Reid and Senator McCaskill and Senate Democrats want out, because it's not working.

WALLACE: Senator, we're going to talk about all of that with Senator McCaskill of the next segment. I want to thank you so much for joining us today and we'll stay on top of the battle of the budget. It should be interesting.

CRUZ: Thank you, Chris

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