CNN "State of the Union with Candy Crowley" - Transcript: Syria

Interview

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CROWLEY: Joining me now, Senator Bob Casey, a Democrat from Pennsylvania, and Senator Ron Johnson, Republican from Wisconsin.

Thank you both.

Let me first get your reaction to that from the president saying obviously we don't have the values, but both countries don't want -- are worried about the spread of terrorism. They're both worried about chemical weapons.

Is that why you think, either one of you -- well, let's start with you, Senator Casey -- believe that Russia came to the table?

CASEY: Well, I think that's part of the equation here, Candy. But I think far too much time has been spent on this op-ed by Mr. Putin. It really doesn't matter. It was obnoxious. It was an insult to the American people, and we shouldn't spend any more time on it.

What we should focus on is making sure that we're doing everything possible to make this framework agreement viable and to make it work.

But I have a lot of doubts about it. I have real concerns about the ability of either side to effectuate this. But we should give it time. And we're going to know in a matter of days whether it's going to work or not because the Assad regime has a deadline in a week to give information about where these sites are, give every last detail about where they are. And if they don't do that, then we have to remind them or remind the world that the credible threat of force is still on the table. That's what got us to this point, and we have to make sure Mr. Assad knows that that threat is still there.

CROWLEY: Senator Johnson, when you look at this framework and test the U.S.-Russian relationship, as described by the president, not to mention the U.S.-Syrian relationship, do you trust both or neither in being able to bring this agreement to fruition?

JOHNSON: Well, the president said he didn't think that Vladimir Putin shares our values. I think most Americans know that the Russians don't share our values. And what we also know is that, because of the way the president has handled all of this, you know, certainly American influence in the region has been diminished and Russia's influence has increased. And that's not a good thing for Syria, not for the Syrian people, and quite honestly not for regional stability.

But, you know, the fact of the matter is, there are some shared interests that we need to take advantage of. I mean, I think the president is right. I mean, I don't think it's in Russia's best interest to have those chemical weapons fall in the hands of Al Qaeda. It's not in Russia's best interest to have chaos in Syria as well. But again, Russia is the primary supporter of the criminal Assad regime. We feed to recognize that. But now it's the point in time I think that if -- and it's a big if -- if that framework actually could be implemented, that would be a real positive gain.

So this administration must push this diplomatic effort hard and make sure that the Russians make good on their rhetoric and make sure that their actions match their rhetoric so we actually can remove those chemical weapons and the production capability of the Assad regime.

CROWLEY: I want -- you both have mentioned the stability of Syria overall.

Is it true that about 100 times as many rebels have been killed by conventional weapons as by these chemical weapons. And if you remove the chemical weapons, certainly Assad still has a major advantage in the field.

The president, as you know, two years ago, called for Assad to step aside. He said he wanted Assad removed.

And in this interview on ABC he said, look, my primary concern, of course, is the chemical weapons, and then he talked about security.

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OBAMA: So I have a primary concern there. I also believe that the U.S. has an interest in seeing a stable Syria, in which people aren't being slaughtered. And it is hard to envision how Mr. Assad regains any kind of legitimacy after he's gassed or his military has gassed innocent civilians and children.

And so part of my argument here is that we will not intervene militarily to bring that transition about.

But all the countries in the region -- and I think the entire world and the United Nations -- should have an interest in trying to bring about that stability.

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CROWLEY: So the president, it seems to me, has gone from Assad has to go to it's really hard to envision how he could stay.

Do you think that by coming to this agreement on chemical weapons that we now are at a point where we step back a little from trying to help the rebels?

Go ahead, Senator Casey.

CASEY: No, Candy. I think that our national security interests were certainly at stake as it related to the threat of the use of chemical weapons. Remember, soldiers in World War I were exposed to chemical weapons, U.S. soldiers. That hasn't been the case for almost 100 years. We should never allow that threat to be present, a clear and present danger to American soldiers or American personnel or even the American people.

But separate and apart, and now we're at a point where there's a pathway, maybe, to resolve the chemical weapons threat or at least to remove them from Syria, on another track and a whole other discussion is what do we do next?

I believe it's in our national security interests to make sure that the Assad regime doesn't prevail here, for this reason: I think it's bad in and of itself, but let's not forget, few people in Washington seem to understand this, but the Iranian regime plots against American citizens every single day. So does their partner, Hezbollah, the terrorist organization.

They've killed more Americans than any group other than Al Qaeda in the world. The Iranian regime tried to blow up a restaurant in Washington in 2011, which was -- killed lots of Americans.

So that side prevailing there is very bad for our interests, it would be very bad for the region and anyone who equates the two and says that both sides are equally bad doesn't know what they are talking about.

I understand that there are extreme elements on the other side and we've got to deal with that for sure.

But it is better for our national security interests if Mr. Assad loses, the Iranian regime loses and Hezbollah loses. That's better for us.

CROWLEY: And yet we're hearing from some people, Senator Johnson, that this deal in fact kind of strengthens Assad's hand in some ways.

JOHNSON: Well, Candy, (inaudible), we don't have a deal yet. We have a framework.

Senator Casey has really been one of the leaders on the Hill pointing out why Syria does matter to Americans.

I agree with him. It really does. I hope the president and members of his administration have learned some lessons here.

You don't go out and state policy like Mubarak must go or Assad must go or create red lines unless you've laid the groundwork, unless you've gotten and explained to the American public and gotten their -- certainly their support and gone around the world and assembled a coalition of the willing to back up the policy statements that you make.

Now, Americans' credibility is something incredibly precious and President Obama certainly asked us, you know, when he met with us before he gave his speech and asked us, don't undermine America's credibility. I don't want to do that. I agree with that. I just wish this president learns the lessons from the past because he's done an awful lot to certainly undermine his own credibility in the last five years.

So again, if this framework can be implemented, that's a very good first step and hopefully starts the dialogue with the Russians, because they are the number one benefactor of, supporter of Syria. They are going to need to be actively engaged in coming to some diplomatic solution for Syria.

And that's really, at this point, by the best-case scenario, if we can leave some government in place, so we don't have a failed state in Syria, but we have to remove the criminal Assad regime from power.

CROWLEY: Senator Ron Johnson, Senator Bob Casey, thanks for your time today.

CASEY: Can I add something?

CROWLEY: Yes, sir, go ahead.

CASEY: Thanks, Candy. I was just going to add something. I should have mentioned that I hope that we -- that now that this policy is on a pathway that we can start to focus on the other policy, which is making sure that we arm the opposition, which I think is one way to make sure that the moderate opposition is in power and can win.

CROWLEY: Senator Casey, Senator Johnson, thank you.

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