CBS "Face the Nation" - Transcript: National Security Agency Reforms

Interview

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SCHIEFFER: All right. Well, thank you so much, Mr. Chairman, for joining us this morning. In our broadcast center in New York, Democratic Senator Chuck Schumer is with us this morning. Senator Schumer, all of this comes as there is increasing pressure in Congress to rein in the National Security Agency. Do you think this is going to change that debate in any way or should there be more controls on the NSA?

SCHUMER: Well, I think what today shows, of course, is that security is very, very important and that the agencies in charge are darned good. They're able to listen in and hear what's going on. They have disrupted many, many, many terrorist plots, and let's hope they're disrupting this one as well. Having said that, you know, there's always a balance between security and liberty. And there's always a time to reexamine that. It is appropriate to do that right now, and I do think that reexamination will go forward. My view is very simple. In these things, there should be -- whenever there is an age-old fight between security and liberty, which there has been since the Constitution was written, first there should be an open debate in both Congress and with the American people. Second, rules should be established. And third -- and I think here's the weakness -- there has to be an independent arbiter to make sure the rules are being enforced. And because the FISA Court is so secret, people don't know if it's being an effective independent arbiter or not. Some say yes; some say no. So a proposal like that of Senator Merkley, which would make the FISA Court provisions more public, of course, redacting anything that would affect national security, might make some sense and might let the American people know more what's going on.

SCHIEFFER: You came down pretty hard the other day on Edward Snowden and the Russians when they granted asylum to Snowden. He, of course, is the guy who has leaked so much of this information. Do you think that any of what we're going through right now has anything to do with anything that Snowden might have leaked that these people have picked up and are now causing them to push forward on this?

SCHUMER: Well, it's much too early to tell that. Obviously, these plots that Al Qaida does take months and months and months to germinate. So, obviously, they started before that. Whether it had an effect, no one knows. But I will say that the relationship between the United States and Russia, for instance, is more poisonous than at any time since the Cold War because of all of this.

SCHIEFFER: Well, what about the Russians giving Snowden asylum? You said the other day it was a stab in the back.

SCHUMER: Yeah.

SCHIEFFER: What should we do now? Should we not go to that international economic conference in Russia? Should the president cancel the individual summit that he had planned with President Putin?

SCHUMER: Yeah, I would urge the president to cancel the bilateral summit he's having with Mr. Putin. President Putin's behaving like a schoolyard bully, and in my experience I've learned, unless you stand up to that bully, they ask for more and more and more. And he's always going out of his way, President Putin is, to seem to poke us in the eye, whether it's in Iran, in Syria, now with Snowden. So I would urge the president not to go forward with the bilateral meeting next month. That would give Putin the kind of respect he doesn't deserve at this point in time. I'd also urge the preside to try to urge our allies, if it were possible, to move the G-20 summit away from St. Petersburg. Some of them may not want to do that. The G-20 summit's important, but certainly, on our own end, for the president to meet with Putin in a one-on-one meeting later this month would give him respect he doesn't deserve after all he's done.

SCHIEFFER: So you'd just move the whole thing -- not only cancel the summit with Putin but also move the whole international conference? Senator...

SCHUMER: If -- if possible. I think we'd have to, Bob, get the OK of our allies, and some of them might say no on that one. And I still would go forward with that.

SCHIEFFER: Why do you think Putin did this? I mean, this, kind of, has a high school-like scenario to it. But, you know, often nations have some reason behind their actions. Do you think this was a calculated strategy on his part?

SCHUMER: Look, I think that President Putin feels the loss of Russian power, certainly since the end of the Cold War, keenly, being an old KGB officer. And he's trying to build it back up. The trouble is, the way he's trying to build it back up is not by strengthening the economy or making Russia a more free and robust place -- he persecutes all of his political opponents -- but rather by, sort of, stepping on our back. You know, there's always somebody in any group, whether it's a business, a social organization, a religious organization, who can get a lot of attention by make trouble even though the common good goes in the other direction. And Putin seems to want to build himself up in the negative ways, not the positive ways that a leader often does. I think that's his motivation. In the long run, that doesn't succeed. But in the short run, by standing up to him and showing him that those kinds of, as you say, sometimes puerile actions should have consequences makes sense. And that's why I think we shouldn't go forward with the bilateral summit.

SCHIEFFER: All right. Well, Senator, thank you very much. I think you made a little news here this morning. We'll be back in one minute to hear from vice presidential -- the former vice presidential candidate, Republican Paul Ryan.

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