Fox News "Fox News Sunday with Chris Wallace" - Transcript - Foreign Policy and National Security

Interview

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WALLACE: NSA leaker Edward Snowden on Friday making his first public appearance in three weeks at a Moscow airport. Snowden now says he wants asylum in Russia while he tries to arrange travel to Latin America.

Here to discuss the Snowden case and more, Congressman Michael McCaul, chairman of the House Homeland Security Committee, who joins us from Austin, Texas.

Congressman, what do you make of Snowden's decision now to seek at least temporary asylum in Moscow? And what about the Russian government providing him with what the White House is calling a propaganda platform to make his announcement?

REP/ MICHAEL MCCAUL, R-TEXAS : Well, every day this man is a fugitive on the run, he puts the United States and national security more at risk. He is a traitor to this country. He took an oath of loyalty to the United States and now, he's running for cover with our enemies.

The idea that he's in Russia--I'm sure the Russians love this.They're making a mockery of the United States foreign policy and I'm sure every day, they're extracting more and more information from this man.

At the same time, it's a test of our foreign policy, our diplomacy. I would give the administration low marks for what they've done so far.

I think the irony here is this is a man who is a defender of freedom, supposedly. Yet, he is running for cover in countries in the world that oppress freedom, whether it's China, Russia, and now, he's talking about going to Venezuela. I think this is a--you know, I think the administration could be doing a lot more.

WALLACE: Well, let me ask you directly, what should the president do to make it clear to the Russians that we don't want them to give him safe haven? And, look, this is an important relationship. It's a complicated relationship between the U.S. and Russia.

How far should we be willing to go in putting overall relations on the line over the Snowden case?

MCCAUL: I think we should be putting any and all pressure we have--economic, trade. I think the restart button with Putin was a mistake. Clearly, it's not working in this case, because we have no diplomacy leverage over Russia. They're thumbing their nose at the United States.

And that's not diplomacy through strength. It's been the pattern of this administration to try to negotiate without strength. And I think now we're seeing the repercussions of that strategy.

WALLACE: Let me turn to another subject. Janet Napolitano surprised Washington on Friday when she announced that she is stepping down as the secretary of homeland security. I think it's fair to say, she's generally seen as being effective in imposing order over very unwieldy department, 240,000 employees, spread to over 22 agencies.

On the other hand, she was criticized over her comments on how secure the border is and also from her reluctance, right from the start, to even use the word terror.

Take a look at this.

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JANET NAPOLITANO, HOMELAND SECURITY SECRETARY: We think about both from the man caused and non-man caused incidents, but particularly on the man cause. The weapon of mass destruction involving a hazardous chemical or biological weapon is very high up on the scenarios that we are seeing.

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WALLACE: nbsp; I love that. Man caused incidents. Congressman, how do you think that Napolitano did, generally, over 4 1/2 years as secretary of homeland security? And what impact do you see her resignation having at a moment when immigration reform and border enforcement are at the height of the national agenda?

MCCAUL: nbsp; Well, I respect her for that position. We disagreed on many issues, particularly when it came to the border. She would go around saying it's never been more secure. I took just the opposite position, that it is not secure and that's why we passed the Border Security Results Act out of my committee to achieve that, and to get that done.

So, I think also with respect to morale, I thin morale has been very low in the department.

So, I think there's an opportunity here to get a real leader in who can work with House Republicans on security issues, on enforcement issues and someone who will garner the respect of the Congress, which I think right now there's a real problem with that.

And, lastly, to talk to your point about taking war on terror out of an--taking out radical Islam, if we can't define the enemy, we can't defeat it. Giuliani testified before my committee in Boston, talking about that very issue.

The narrative of this administration, that Al-Qaeda is on the run, bin Laden's killed, war on terror is over, let's downgrade the military. Let's pull out.

And the pre-9/11 threat narrative that's being thrown out there I believe is very dangerous narrative, because it does not reflect reality.

WALLACE: We're going to get to specific names in a moment. But are you suggesting that if the president were to name a man or woman who is seen as tough, law and order, tough on enforcement, that that might reassure Republicans on the question of border security in this immigration debate?

MCCAUL: Absolutely. I think--again, I think there's an opportunity for this administration. And I would be much very willing to talk to them about this. I mean, there are names thrown out there, like Tad Allen, the admiral of the Coast Guard. There's a--

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WALLACE: We put a lot of money into creating this graphic, so let's put up some of the names that are being mentioned as possible replacements for Napolitano.

Craig Fugate is the current head of FEMA. John Pistole is the head of the Transportation Security Administration. New York City Police Commissioner Ray Kelly, former commissioner Bill Bratton. You mentioned Thad Allen, former head of the Coast Guard.

Do you like any of those names? Is there anybody else, a favorite candidate who you think would reassure Republicans on both the war on terror and the border immigration?

MCCAUL: Yes, I mean, it's ultimately the president's choice. But I'll tell you, Thad Allen has testified before my committee multiple occasions, admiral of coast guard, very well respected.

Ray Kelly, in terms of counterterrorism, one of the most respected guys out there. And a lot of people are pushing for him--and Bratton as well.

MCCAUL: But I think--yeah, I think any three of those coming in would gain a lot of respect from the House Republicans and could help us at a time when we're really trying to push this border security measure out of the House of Representatives.

WALLACE: Let me switch subjects on it. There were reports this week that the president is growing increasingly frustrated with Afghan President Hamid Karzai and is now seriously considering speeding up the pullout, the withdrawal of U.S. troops, not to the end of 2014, but perhaps to the summer of 2014 and that instead of having a residual force after 2014, somewhere between 5,000 and 20,000 troops, That, in fact, we would go to the zero option. Here was the White House spokesman Jay Carney on that subject this week.

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JAY CARNEY, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: One option is no troops. I'm not saying that's a preferred option. I'm just saying to suggest otherwise would be to make assumptions about negotiations that have not reached the conclusion.

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WALLACE: Congressman McCaul, how do you feel about getting out of Afghanistan faster and getting out after 2014 for good?

MCCAUL: Well, it's another failure of diplomacy with the Karzai administration. There are policies to negotiate with the Taliban to resolve Afghanistan. I think that's a very, you know, troublesome strategy, if you will. The zero option, in my judgment, is no option. Because the zero option takes us out, completely out of Afghanistan. And I understand we're all war fatigued and are ready to wind down the forces. Though the problem with that is that it leaves no counterterrorism footprint behind. So, we have no ability to deal with future bin Ladens that may pop up in a safe haven of Afghanistan that we saw when we pulled out of Afghanistan the last time, defeating the Soviets.

So I don't want to go back to that strategy. You know, we did the same thing in Iraq with the status of forces agreement and now Iraq is becoming a huge problem. If we--if we re-nag in our commitment to the Afghan people and Afghan military and pull the rug out from under them and allow the Taliban to come in and seek retribution and kill them and put Afghanistan in chaos as a safe haven all over again, that does a great disservice, a great disservice to what our troops have tried to do the last ten years and all the great gains that they have made in Afghanistan.

WALLACE: One last subject on this very busy Sunday, Congressman McCaul. What do you make of the developments in Egypt over the last week? We saw the mass shooting of Islamic protesters in the streets. We also saw the creation of a new transition government with some establishment figures, who are somewhat respected. Generally speaking, are you encouraged or discouraged by what you have seen the last week or two in Egypt?

MCCAUL: I have actually been encouraged. And I'll tell you why. When the Arab Spring occurred in Egypt and Libya and across northern Africa, and now we're dealing with this in Syria, to see the Muslim Brotherhood come to the heights of power, suspending all other authorities in the government and then imposing Sharia law on their people, I've been greatly troubled by this Arab Spring really becoming an Arab winter. I think the military in Egypt is the most stabilizing factor in Egypt. And I think we should support the military in their efforts in ousting the Muslim Brotherhood, and arresting the Muslim Brotherhood and bringing more secular, moderate form of government to Egypt. And we have a lot of strategic interests over there. Remember, he relationship with Israel, with the peace accords that were struck. That's very important.

WALLACE: Let me just--we have ten seconds left.

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MCCAUL: Very important as well.

WALLACE: Let me just ask you in ten seconds left. So, you were very much opposed cutting off the U.S. military aid to Egypt?

MCCAUL: I think the administration needs to make the case as to why we shouldn't suspend the aid. But I'm personally am in agreement with supporting the military, which is the most stabilizing factor in Egypt, so to go against the Muslim Brotherhood and against the Sharia law.

WALLACE: Congressman McCaul, I want to thank you so much for sharing part of your Sunday with us. It's always good to talk with you, sir.

MCCAUL: Thanks, Chris.

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