CNN "State of the Union with Candy Crowley" - Transcript - Foreign Policy and Immigration Reform

Interview

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CROWLEY: Joining me now, Democratic Senator Chuck Schumer of New York.

Senator, I know you have a big week coming up with immigration reform and I do want to talk to you about that. But I first talk to you about the news that's breaking now. And we have this situation where Hong Kong, with whom the U.S. has cordial, in fact, good relations and an extradition treaty, has let Edward Snowden fly out presumably to Moscow and then points unknown.

What do you make of that?

SEN. CHUCK SCHUMER, (D) NEW YORK: Well, first, very disappointing what Hong Kong has done. It remains to be seen how much influence Beijing had on Hong Kong. As you know, they coordinate their foreign policies and I have a feeling the hand of Beijing was involved here.

What's infuriating here is Prime Minister Putin of Russia aiding and abetting Snowden's escape. The bottom line is very simple, allies are supposed to treat each other in decent ways, and Putin always seems almost eager to put a finger in the eye of the United States, whether it is Syria, Iran, and now, of course, with Snowden. That's not how allies should treat one another, and I think it will have serious consequences for the United States-Russia relationship.

CROWLEY: OK, then let me follow up with this, Putin's relationship to Snowden landing in Moscow, you believe it had to have been approved by the Russian president?

SCHUMER: I believe so. Something at this level in a state-controlled country, the minute Aeroflot got the notification he would be coming, I believe that Putin, it's almost certain he knew, and it's likely he approved it.

CROWLEY: So if there will be consequences -- and we know there are lots of things on which the U.S. and Russia disagree, but it's not the Cold War anymore. Why would he allow Snowden to come?

SCHUMER: You know, I always -- it seems to me that Mr. Putin is almost eager to stick a finger in the eye of the United States. In so many different areas he does not cooperate. Very few are the areas in which he does cooperate these days. And I think this action, Putin allowing Snowden to land in Russia and then go somewhere else, is going to have serious consequences for U.S.-Russian relationship.

CROWLEY: And just could you tell me a couple of what those -- what serious consequences?

SCHUMER: Well, who knows? We have all kinds of relationships with Russia, and in some ways works out pretty well. We're trying to mutually reduce the number of nuclear arms that each country has. But there are many different kinds of relationships that are both political, diplomatic, economic. And I don't think we can just shrug our shoulders and say this is how Putin is.

CROWLEY: And do you think right now there are U.S. diplomats on the line with Russian diplomats saying, you need to hold that guy and extradite him to us?

SCHUMER: I absolutely it's very, very likely that we are asking Russia to hold him. Whether Russia does that or not, I don't know. but the fact that they were allowing him to land indicates we're not in a phase of cooperation pretty much for sure.

And you know, Snowden -- look, let's look at Snowden here. You know, some might try to say that, oh, he's a great human rights crusader. He is not at all like the great human rights crusaders in the past, the Martin Luther Kings or the Gandhis who did civil disobedience because he -- first, he flees the country. A Daniel Elsburg, when he released the Pentagon Papers because he thought it was the right thing to do, stayed in America and faced the consequences.

But second, he's hurt other people. You know, a Gandhi or a Martin Luther King didn't hurt other people as they did their resistance, and they faced the consequences.

So I don't think Snowden in any way can be compared to those people and should not be made a good guy, hero, or anything like that by anybody.

CROWLEY: And finally on this subject, senator, are you concerned that watching a man the U.S. really thinks has exposed government secrets, who has been charged with spying and with theft of government property, as we sort of track him around the world, are you worried that the U.S. looks kind of powerless to stop this one guy?

SCHUMER: Well, let's wait and see. You know, diplomacy has its funny ways of working, and sometimes it takes a little while. So I wouldn't prejudge that yet.

CROWLEY: OK. Now, let's get to immigration reform. You've got a big vote coming up. I know that you agreed to and will vote on first this new border security plan that is going to double the force that is along the border that will also put 24/7 drone surveillance along the border. Will it buy you the 70 votes you'd like to get?

SCHUMER: Well, look, this is going to be a historic week for the senate as we pass comprehensive immigration reform. We're about at two-thirds of the Senate right now. Our momentum is growing. So I believe we'll be in the neighborhood of 70 votes by the time the vote occurs at the end of the week.

And I do believe that having a significant number of Republicans will change the dynamic in the House. Individual congress members from red districts, if they see their senator has voted for, and they decide to do the right thing. There will be huge pressure on Speaker Boehner not to block immigration reform because that would consign the Republican Party to minority status. And we have all kinds of allies who are usually conservative pushing for this bill -- the business community, the high tech community, the evangelical community, the Catholic bishops, the growers throughout the country.

So I believe that at the end of the day, Speaker Boehner will have to bring a bill, either the Senate bill or something much closer to it than people think, to the floor of the Senate, even if it means abandoning the Hastert rule. He will have no choice as the pressure mounts over the summer.

CROWLEY: There is a difference between the speaker bringing it to the floor and his being able to corral some of his conservatives. There's a delicate line there, as you saw, when it was the farm bill was defeated by this kind of coalition of Democrats who were furious that it did too much and Republicans who thought it didn't do enough. There is a real chance that this could die in the House. Would you concede to that?

SCHUMER: Well, no, I think there will be pressure on Boehner to bring a bill similar to the Senate bill. If it's similar to the Senate bill or the Senate bill itself, he might even have to do that, You'll get most Democrats voting for it, and you will get a good number of Republicans, even if not a majority.

And I think the pressure is going to mount.

You know, Candy, this has the potential of becoming the next major civil rights movement. I could envision in the late summer or early fall, if Boehner tries to bottle the bill up or put something in without a path to citizenship, if there's no path to citizenship, there's no bill. But if he puts something, if he tries to bottle it up or do things like that, I could see a million people on the mall in Washington, on the platform would not be the usual suspects, but the leaders of business, the leaders of the evangelical movement, the leaders of high tech, as well as most Americans pressuring the House to act.

I think they're going to have to act whether they have a majority of Republicans or not.

CROWLEY: Senator Schumer, thanks for being patient with us on this breaking news day.

SCHUMER: It's okay. No problem. Thank you.

CROWLEY: I really appreciate your time.

SCHUMER: Thanks, Candy.

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