MSNBC "Hardball with Chris Matthews" - Transcript - Immigration Reform

Interview

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MATTHEWS: Well, Senator Lindsey Graham, a key architect of the bill in this Senate, has voiced his support as well for this new amendment, saying it`s -- quote -- "an overwhelming effort to secure our border, short of shooting anybody who comes across."

Well, that`s strong language.

Joining us right now is the author -- the co-author, I should say, of the border surge, Senator John Hoeven, Republican from North Dakota. Senator, thank you so much.

You were a governor, so I have great confidence in you as an executive. And, sometimes, I think that legislators don`t know what they`re talking about. They pass bills. They don`t become effective. They don`t have any teeth. They don`t work. And we call them reform bills, and, 20 years later, we`re passing another reform bill because the first one was a joke.

On immigration reform, you know what went wrong on the 1986 bill. It never got enforced. We got amnesty without any border control, no employer sanctions. Why should a skeptic believe that this time the Congress, with the support of Hispanic groups, with the support of liberals and moderates, is willing to get tough and really pass a law we`re proud to enforce?

SEN. JOHN HOEVEN (R), NORTH DAKOTA: Chris, good to be with you.

And you were out in North Dakota when I was governor, and got a chance to visit with you then. And, look, this bill focuses on making sure we secure the border first. That`s what it`s all about. You mentioned a lot of the things that are in the bill.

What we provide is that we secure the border, so we`re not back in this situation where we have millions of illegal immigrants in this country 10 years down the road. That`s what it`s all about. That`s why it strengthens this comprehensive immigration reform effort.

MATTHEWS: Some people are skeptical of this bill because of the people behind it.

You keep hearing from, for example, the organized Hispanic community. And fair enough. They`re concerned about people here illegally, and they`re trying to get them on a path to legality. And that`s a wonderfully worthwhile purpose.

But are they also supportive, as you see it -- or is the bill supportive of the other side of the equation, stopping the problem from getting worse?

HOEVEN: Absolutely.

We put a $3.2 billion high-tech strategic plan right in the legislation. That must be deployed. That must be operational on the border, in addition to 20,000 additional border patrol agents, 700 miles of fencing, and E-Verify system and an entry/exit system at all of our international airports and seaports before anyone could get a green card.

And so, this is about border security first, which is why it should bring people together to -- it`s what the American people want, and we should get a bipartisan vote to pass the legislation.

MATTHEWS: So you`re running a construction company perhaps up in North Dakota, perhaps down near the border around Arizona. You have 25 people you have working for you, and a new guy comes looking for a job and you suspect he`s probably from across the border or he comes from a background you think might be a problem. You don`t know. So you want to make sure you haven`t hired somebody illegally.

How under this system can you be sure you`re not breaking the law and be sure you have a good person here a good authorized person to be in the country and you`re solid on the law.

How do you be sure of that under your bill?

HOEVEN: Because employers are required to use the E-Verify system. You`re on the right subject. It`s not just about securing the border. It`s also about taking away the incentive to come here illegally. Do you that with E-Verify and a proper guest worker program so the people that come don`t want to come because they can`t get a job because we`ll catch them with E-Verify if they can get across our secure border which they won`t be able to, and you have a guest worker program so they can come legally and go back home.

MATTHEWS: You sound like a great man, senator, governor, as good a title as any.

But, Senator John Hoeven, thank you from North Dakota. I hope you follow with that consistency right through the conference.

HOEVEN: Thanks, Chris.

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