CBS "Face the Nation" - Transcript - IRS Scandal and Associated Press Story

Interview

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BOB SCHIEFFER: Okay. We taped that just a few minutes ago. We're now going to get some reaction. We're joined by Texas Senator John Cornyn who's the number two Republican in the Senate. Your reaction.

SENATOR JOHN CORNYN (Assistant Republican Leader/R-Texas): Well, I just think it's implausible. It seems to be the answer of the administration whenever they're caught doing something they shouldn't be doing is I didn't know about it and it caused me to wonder whether they believe willful ignorance is a defense when it's your job to know. But given the trend line we're seeing here, Bob, in so many different instances, it's, unfortunately, a culture, I think in the administration that it's okay to cover these things up and part of it has to do with the intimidation that the administration is using against some of its critics. You see that in the AP story. You see that in the Tea Party story. There are so many common elements here. So I really think it is a culture of cover-ups, and intimidation that is getting the administration in so much trouble.

BOB SCHIEFFER: Let me just ask you this: Do you have any evidence, evidence, not hearsay or any of that, any evidence that would contradict the President's statement that he didn't know anything about this until two weeks ago?

SENATOR JOHN CORNYN: All I know is what I read in the press and listen to you and other members of the news media say. What we do know is that Secretary Lew, the Treasury Secretary, shortly after he was confirmed in March, said he knew about this. And then the President--I'm talking now about the IRS scandal--and the President himself said he didn't learn about it until May eleventh when he read it in the newspaper. That's either evidence to me of somebody not doing their job or the kind of willful ignorance I alluded to earlier or trying to cover things up. So that's why it's important to have a bipartisan investigation as we will begin this week in the Senate Finance Committee, Senator Baucus, a Democrat, Senator Hatch, a Republican, will conduct a respectful but thorough investigation and get to the bottom of that particular scandal.

BOB SCHIEFFER: Do you have any concern that Republicans may overplay their hands in all this. In fact, we have heard that some of your leadership, and you're part of the leadership, has gone to Republicans and said let's be careful here. This is serious stuff. Let's-- let's not take it where it ought not to go?

SENATOR JOHN CORNYN: Well, I think we need to have a fair and respectful process and not put the cart ahead of the horse. I agree with those that say let's calm down. Let's be deliberate. Let's be methodical. Let's be thorough, and get to the bottom of all of these scandals so the American people can know exactly what happened. As I said at the beginning, there is a credibility problem that this administration has. And if we're ever going to regain the public's confidence they need to know what the facts are they need to know we're doing our job by getting those out in public.

BOB SCHIEFFER: You were one of the first to demand the firing of Steven Miller who was the acting head of the IRS. Do you think more needs to be done on that front?

SENATOR JOHN CORNYN: I do. I wrote to the Commissioner of the IRS and-- because I got constituent inquiries from Houston, Waco, and San Antonio, some Tea Party groups there, who thought they were being unfairly targeted back in 2010 and 2011. And what we know now is the IRS, including Mister Miller lied to Congress, lied to me, more importantly, lied to the American people and saying there was no such political targeting going on.

BOB SCHIEFFER: Well, from what you know about it now, do you think this was something that was just generated within the IRS or do you think they were acting on orders from somebody else?

SENATOR JOHN CORNYN: Well, that's where I think the culture or the-- the environment that the administration has created here, that it's okay to cover things up, it's okay to intimidate your political adversaries is important. You've been around bureaucracies a long time as I have, and bureaucrats don't take risks unless they have a signal either explicit or implicit from their higher ups that what you're doing is exactly what we expect you to do. So I have a very hard time believing that this was something cooked up in Cincinnati from midlevel employees at the IRS. That's just implausible.

BOB SCHIEFFER: Let me ask you about this AP leak case. And this was a case where the Associated Press had a story. It was about how the CIA had broken up a terrorist plot to put bombs on-- on aircraft. It was a good story that would have reflected well, did reflect well on the administration. They got the story. When they got it, the AP said the-- the CIA asked the AP to hold up with that story for a while. They did. And finally they decided to go with it after-- after five days. But only after the CIA told them it was okay to go with it, the-- the threat to people involved had passed. What-- what's your take on all of this?

SENATOR JOHN CORNYN: Well, the national security leaks are very important that we get to the bottom of it. But what-- what confuses me is the focus on the press who have a constitutional right here, and we depend on the press to get to the bottom of so many issues that we, as individuals, cannot, why the focus so much on the press with this broad net they-- they-- they cast over reporters and their phone records rather than focus on the leaker. To me, the focus should be on the leaker and not so much on the people who report what the leaker put out in the public domain. And that's why I've written to the Attorney General why I believe we need to have hearings in the Senate Judiciary Committee to ask Attorney General Holder just-- why that so.

BOB SCHIEFFER: Well, the Attorney General recused himself because he said he was also questioned here. But you're on the Judiciary Committee. Do you have any indication or have-- have you found out anything about when he recused himself or is there any record of when he recused himself?

SENATOR JOHN CORNYN: As-- as you know, Bob, I used to be a judge in my earlier life and-- in Texas. And it's unusual to have a recusal of a judge or an official that's not in writing. And, apparently, Attorney General Holder did not put anything in writing. So we have no evidence of when he actually recused himself. And here again, whoever it is, we want to get him in front of the Judiciary Committee, put him under oath, and get to the bottom of it. I think we have to do that to regain the public's confidence.

BOB SCHIEFFER: Do you think he should step down?

SENATOR JOHN CORNYN: You know, I-- I've lost confidence in the attorney general a long time ago over his cover-up over the fast and furious investigation. And the bogus claim of executive privilege when Congress tried to get to the bottom of that, which in part resulted in him being the first attorney general held in contempt of Congress. I think it's past time for him to go and for the President to appoint somebody who the public can have confidence in.

BOB SCHIEFFER: Senator Cornyn, thank you for being with us.

SENATOR JOHN CORNYN: Thank you, Bob.

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