CNN "This Week With George Stephanopoulos" - Transcript - Immigration Reform and Guns

Interview

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KARL: And we're joined now by another member of the gang of eight, New York Democratic Senator Chuck Schumer and Alabama Republican Senator Jeff Sessions.

Senator Sessions, you heard Senator Rubio's pitch to conservatives like you, in fact you specifically. Are you convinced?

SESSIONS: No, I'm not convinced. I know Senator Rubio's heart is exactly right. And I really respect the work of the gang of eight. But they have produced legislation, it appears -- although it looks like now it may be another week before we see it, that will give amnesty now, legalize everyone that's here effectively today and then there's a promise of enforcement in the future. Even if you pass laws today that appear to be effective, it doesn't mean they're going to be enforced.

And we have in this administration, a failure to enforce. So that's a big deal right now.

KARL: But doesn't Senator Rubio have a point that those that are here now effectively have amnesty? I mean, nobody is prosecuting the 11 million undocumented immigrants that are in the country right now.

SESSIONS: You're exactly right. We have got a real problem with that situation. And what we need to do is to analyze how to handle it, how to make sure that we do the right thing for America. I think it's incumbent on Republicans, Democrats, and every one of us to ask what is going to happen to working Americans whose wages have been falling since 2000 who are unemployed at a very high rate. It will impact them adversely. We have to ask how the new flow of workers is going to be maybe double the current flow of legal workers in the future, in addition to those who will be legalized, 11 million. How that will impact them.

So, I think the public interest is to figure out how we can deal with the crisis we face, how we can have a lawful system that serves the national interest without hammering, as the civil rights commission members have said, the average low-income worker, the African-American and Hispanic worker that's here.

KARL: So, Senator Schumer, is this amnesty first?

SCHUMER: No, not at all. This is a very balanced bill. The American people have told us to do two things. One, prevent future flows of illegal immigration and then, come up with a common sense solution for legal immigration. And that's what our bill does.

You know, we've worked long and hard on this so, we're very, very close. Every major -- every significant disagreement among the eight of us is resolved. And I expect we will -- the eight of us will introduce a bill on Tuesday. Obviously, there have been problems. But last Friday night, this past Friday night, under Dianne Feinstein's leadership, the last problem, agriculture, was agreed to. The growers and the farm workers are there. So of course, we've all said, until the eight of us sign that bill, put our names on it, Tuesday, we don't have final agreement.

But I see nothing in the way. And I think you'll see a major agreement that's balanced but fair, that will have the widespread support of the American people on Tuesday.

KARL: But you know, Senator Schumer, I've talked to some of those who have been advocating this for a long time who say the Republican Party has their back against the wall on this, with Hispanic voters, that Democrats are driving this and that you guys are giving up too much.

I mean, under this compromise, as I understand it, somebody would have to wait ten years before even getting a green card, 13 years before, at the very earliest, they could be eligible for citizenship. Even somebody who has been in the country for 20 years. Have you given up too much on this?

SCHUMER: Well, I'm not going to get into specifics. But the eight of us have met in the middle. And I think that's where the American people are. They want a solution to immigration, as Marco Rubio said, and he's been a tremendous asset here. As Marco Rubio has said, the present situation is untenable.

This is a balanced approach that both prevents future waves of illegal immigration, but has common sense solutions.

Look at what we do now. We turn away people who could actually create jobs in America. And at the same time, we let people come across our border who take jobs away from Americans. Who wouldn't want to fix that in a fair and balanced way? And that's what we're doing.

KARL: So, let me ask you, Senator Sessions, you have said there are just too many unanswered questions about what this does. You put out a bunch of them. You have got one of the principal architects of this compromise right here. Fire away. What's your question?

SESSIONS: Well, I would ask Senator Schumer this, if this legislation is established by reputable economists as pulling down the wages of already suffering low-wage American workers, will you continue to push for it?

SCHUMER: The bottom line, that's not going to happen, Jeff.

SESSIONS: Well, you have to read the statistics. You didn't have hearings with these top economists who studied this over the years publicly, to determine the impact. And they say it will have that impact, as does the civil rights commission members.

SCHUMER: First of all -- let me just answer. First of all, it's very logical, right now, who's pulling down wage rates? Illegal people who cross the border and will work because they're illegal and have no protections for much less than Americans will work for.

Second, Douglas Holtz-Eakin, one of the most conservative true blue economists said this will raise wages and increase GDP. Cato institute, people who you usually agree with, Jeff, say this is going to be a shot in the arm for our economy because we'll take people in who will create jobs and prevent people who are coming in from lowering wages and taking away American jobs. It's such a logical approach.

It's logical...

SESSIONS: Well, it's logical that if you bring in a massive supply of low-wage workers, you're going to pull the workers down.

SCHUMER: They're already here, though, aren't they?

SESSIONS: Well, you're talking about almost doubling the...

SCHUMER: That's the point, isn't it?

SESSIONS: You're bringing in huge more numbers of legal workers, Chuck. And the ag people that you've been listening to are getting what they want, others are getting what they want, but it will impact and...

KARL: Very quickly, and then I have to move on -- Senator Schumer...

SCHUMER: Jonathan, the bottom line is very simple, the number of illegal people will greatly decrease and the number of legal people will not equal the number of illegals who cross the border. But they will have to be part -- let me just finish. They will have to be part of our society. They will not be able to bring down wages, work for less than minimum wage, be in the shadows, et cetera. So, it's very good.

Why do you think labor is supporting this proposal, not because it will bring down wages, but because it will be a real opportunity for Americans to gain more jobs.

KARL: OK.

So, I need to move on to the other big compromise -- and I know you guys also don't see eye to eye on this, this guns compromise.

And, Senator Schumer, obviously you were part of crafting this Toomey-Manchin agreement on background checks, which looks like it has a chance. But can you be blunt, honest, candid, forthright with me here, the other aspects of the president's agenda are going to go nowhere, right? We are not going to see an assault weapons ban come out of the senate, are we?

SCHUMER: Well, look, we're going to fight as hard as we can for -- I am anyway, for assault weapons ban and limitation on clips. But the sweet spot is background checks. It will do the most good, according to all the experts, in terms of preventing criminals and those adjudicated mentally ill, from getting guns and at the same time, has the best chance of passing.

Having said that, Jonathan, it's a hard road. Not all of the Republicans who voted to allow debate are going to vote with us on background checks. So, it's going to be a tough fight to even get the 60 votes we need for the Manchin-Toomey proposal.

KARL: And in fact you're not going to have all of the Democrats. You had a number of red state Democrats who simply don't like what we're seeing, even on the background checks. Let me look at two of them, Senator Heidi Heitkamp of North Dakota, said in our party -- in our part of the country, this isn't an issue, this is a way of life. This is how people feel. I'm going to represent my state.

And Senator Max Baucus, Montana, said I don't support the bill. Montanans are opposed to this bill by a very large margin. How are you going to convince Democrats to get on board?

SCHUMER: Well, we're going to have the overwhelming majority of Democrats be for this. But as you know well, Jonathan, in the senate, you can't get anything major done because you need 60 votes without bipartisan support. And we're working really hard to maximize both, the number of Democrats who will be the overwhelming majority of those who vote for it, and a number of Republicans.

The key battle is with a handful of Republicans who voted for closing debate, but haven't yet committed on background checks, even the modifications that Manchin and Toomey have proposed. And there as a no, but both got A-ratings from the NRA in the past.

KARL: Probably not any more.

Senator Sessions, you obviously oppose this. Are you going to be able to stop it or are background checks going to pass?

SESSIONS: Before I get that, I just want to say this bill as we understand it, on immigration, will increase the legal flow of low-skill, low-wage workers and it will adversely impact workers.

KARL: But very quickly, are you going to be able to defeat the background checks?

SESSIONS: I don't think it's going to pass. The president of the United States has allowed, each year he's been here, the prosecutions of gun cases to go down. I was a federal prosecutor. I prosecuted those. He needs to prosecute the laws that we have today. They've declined every year since President Bush left office.

KARL: Senator Schumer, before we go, need to ask you about somebody who -- some have called your former protege, Anthony Weiner, obviously left congress in disgrace, now is considering a run for mayor. I don't expect you to make any endorsements in the mayor's race, but tell me, does Anthony Weiner deserve a second chance?

SCHUMER: Look, I'm not going to comment on that.

How did I know you'd ask that question, Jonathan?

KARL: You're not going to comment at all? Do you think he...

SCHUMER: Nope.

KARL: Not even whether he deserves a second chance?

SCHUMER: No comment.

KARL: No comment at all? That is rare. We have Senator Schumer with a no comment. Thank you very much, senator. Appreciate it. Thank you for coming on "This Week."

Senator Sessions.

SCHUMER: Time and season for everything, Jonathan.

SESSIONS: Thank you. I appreciate the talk and the work they've done. We've got a lot of work to do yet. And we need to read their bill.

KARL: All right. Thank you very much.

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