CNN "State of the Union with Candy Crowley" - Transcript - Immigration
Interview
BREAK IN TRANSCRIPT
CROWLEY: Joining me now from Miami, Florida Senator Marco Rubio. Senator, thank you for joining us.
Let me ask you a broad question first.
RUBIO: Good morning.
CROWLEY: As you know, the 1986 immigration reform has been criticized in hindsight as something that only encouraged undocumented workers to come into the U.S. We went from some 3 million undocumented workers in the Reagan era, they had immigration reform, now we're dealing with 11 million.
What in this bill is going to ensure that that doesn't happen again?
RUBIO: Well, three things. First of all, a universal e-verify system which means you won't be able to find a job in the United States if you can't pass that check.
Secondly, an entry-exit system -- you know 40 percent of our immigration are people that enter legally and then they overstay their visas. And we don't really know who they are, because for the most part we only track when people come in, we don't track even when they leave.
And third is real border security including fencing.
And all these three things are going to happen because they are triggers, they are triggers for the green card process that we've described or laying out in our proposal. That's the incentive to ensure they happen.
In essence, for those who are undocumented in this country, not only they'll have to wait 10 years, more than 10 years, but they will have to wait until those three things are fully implemented. If they're not fully implemented, there will be no green cards awarded. And we think that will be incentive.
We're also going to have a legal immigration system that works. Part of our illegal immigration problem is we don't have a legal way for people to come here for example temporarily to work on a farm. We're going to have that now. And so people aren't going to have to come illegally, it's going to be cheaper and easier to come legally. And so I think all these things working together -- none of them by themselves will do the trick but all of them working together will ensure we never have this problem again.
CROWLEY: So, my first question on all of that is the president has said in the past that he didn't want the fate of an undocumented worker to be tied to something beyond their control which would be getting the e-verify system to work, checking on courts and et cetera to find out who's overstayed their visa and border security.
Do you know that the White House approves of the link that you have here?
RUBIO: Well, they don't. But the problem is we have a bipartisan disagreement because I think the bipartisan group of Senators agree that that should be a trigger and the president disagrees and hopefully we can pass a bill that's in there. And if we do, then he'll have a decision to make about whether to sign it or not. But that has to be a part of this otherwise it won't happen and that we've learned that from experience. You outline the '86 experience.
If we don't do enforcement, if enforcement is not a part of this, and if we don't modernize legal immigration, if we don't do all these things, then we're going to be right back here in ten years having this conversation all over again. And that would be the worst possible outcome.
CROWLEY: So once you get the e-verify system up and working for all businesses, once you have sort of quantifiable amounts that you can say, yes, the border is secure either because there's this much fence or the enforcement shows that it's up or down or whatever measures you set. How long is that going to take? And how much money is that going to cost?
RUBIO: Well, first of all it will be at least -- over ten years because obviously the process doesn't begin immediately. In fact, people can't even start applying for their temporary status until the border plans have been created and funded and they begin to implement them.
CROWLEY: Right. That's what I mean, how long does that take?
RUBIO: Well, they have six months to create...
CROWLEY: How long getting everything secure?
RUBIO: Well, obviously that whole ten-year period is something we're looking at.
But here's what happens, if the Department of Homeland Security does not secure the border, does not meet that metrics of 100 percent awareness and 90 percent apprehension within in the first five years, then they lose control of the issue, then it goes to a border commission made up of people that live and have to deal with the border and they will take care of that problem. And it'll be funded to ensure that that happens.
But here's the bigger point, if you are undocumented here now, if you are illegally in the U.S., you can't even apply for this until these plans are in place and they being to implement them. And then you're going to have to pay a fine, you're going to have to pay an application fee, you're going to have to pass a background check and then assuming all of that happens, the only thing you get is a work permit. You don't qualify for any federal benefits including ObamaCare and you're going to have to prove you can sustain and support yourself. You can't be a public charge. And you're going to have to be in the system at least 10 years plus. Plus all these enforcement things happen before we give you access to apply for the legal immigration system. In essence we're not awarding anybody anything. All we're doing is giving people the opportunity to eventually earn access to our new, improved and modernized legal immigration system.
CROWLEY: So what you're talking about is a 10 to 13-year minimum before you can even get a green card. So my question is let me take it from the other side, why bother? If you are in the United States undocumented but you have been able to somehow secure a Social Security number, you're somehow working, why would you step forward knowing that the next step is unknown when you can take it, when life is OK right now?
RUBIO: Well, life is not OK right now for them because they're living in the shadows. They have to hide. They have to lie. They're worried about getting pulled over and deported because they don't have a driver's license. The first - I mean, you're going to have a legal status to work in the U.S. to pay your taxes and to travel -
(CROSSTALK)
CROWLEY: But they can't get that provisional for a while, right? How long before you can get a provisional work visa?
RUBIO: Well, the process doesn't begin until the plans are in place and we give the department of homeland security a number of months to come up with that plan. At the end of the day people are going to get the legalization if they qualify for it. Some people will not qualify for it. But that's why e-verify is so important. You won't be able to find a job. Employers are going to now have available to them a legal workforce. There will be no incentive for them and in fact strong disincentive for them to ignore e-verify and hire someone who's undocumented. And you won't be able to find work in the U.S. if you are not legally here. And that's why that e-verify part of it is so important.
CROWLEY: Let me read you something that one of your colleagues Mike Lee said about immigration and about his discussions with you. "What I told Marco," he said, "was if we can proceed with this in segments, it would be a lot easier to get it passed, and it would be a lot easier for people like me, people in both Houses and both parties to vote for it. I see no reason why you have to lump everything in one 1,500-page bill and say it's all or nothing." That's from an interview that Senator Lee did with "Politico." Is it all or nothing? RUBIO: No. First of all, that's my preference too is to have done that in individual bills. I've argued that in the past. That's not the direction the Senate was headed. So I made a decision to try to influence the direction we were headed. But here's what I'm pleased about. Even though it's one bill, it is divided up into segments just like Senator Lee has advocated for and so have I. And the fact of the matter is that through our negotiations we've been able to keep these segments separate from each other.
In essence we haven't had to trade less border security in exchange for a modernized system. We haven't had to make these tradeoffs. Now hopefully that doesn't happen during the amendment process. This is going to be a lengthy process here. For example if things go according to plan, people are going to have three to four weeks to read this bill and analyze it before the first markup session, the first amendment process begins at the committee level. And we're looking forward to see what suggestions our colleague have to make the product better.
But so far what's been promising about the effort is though it's one bill, it is actually one bill that's divided up into pieces, the modernization piece, this enforcement and what to do with those who are undocumented. And we've been able to deal with each on their own merits not having to make trades in order to get something good in exchange for four things that are bad. As long as the product stays that way, it will be defensible. Unfortunately if it goes in the opposite direction, it would be very difficult then to support it.
CROWLEY: So a couple of questions out of that. The first is have you agreed with your seven colleagues that helped put this bill together that you will stick together when amendments come up that, I guess, the majority of you deem to upset the balance?
RUBIO: Well, first of all I have principles on immigration reform. And as long as the bill reflects those principles, I'm going to be supportive of it. If it abandons those principles, obviously I can't. I think there will be amendment -
(CROSSTALK)
CROWLEY: Have you agreed to stick with your colleagues on that? I mean do you all have...
(CROSSTALK)
CROWLEY: ... all for one, one for all thing?
RUBIO: No. I think we've all agreed to protect the principles of the bill, but we haven't agreed to ban together to keep anyone from amending it. There are 92 other senators who have their own ideas about immigration reform who quite frankly I think can help make this bill better. I mean 92 minds that have additional thoughts of how to improve this thing.
There will also be amendments. We know how politics are played. There will also be amendments designed as poison pills to doom the bill. I'll oppose those if I know that's what they're for. And I'll look forward to justifying in essence there are people that have ideas out there now that used to be my original position on some of these issues and I'm talking about very hypertechnical issues and I'll be able to tell them the thought process I went through that led them to the point that we're at right now. And I think I'll be able to justify, you know, virtually every single aspect of this bill.
CROWLEY: More with Marco Rubio when we return on immigration, guns and a potential run in 2016.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
RUBIO: I'm working on something maybe we'll announce later today.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
CROWLEY: You have certainly been designated it seemed as the face of immigration reform in as far as Republicans are concerned, how comfortable are you with your conservative colleagues and you point out that very often you've held the positions they still now hold?
RUBIO: Well, first of all, I'm not the self-appointed anything. I've worked on this bill and I can tell you that I think part of my job is to explain to people what it is we've worked on, try to justify it and hopefully gain their support. That's what I look forward to doing. I think we have addressed and I have taken into account the concerns that I have and others have about our situation.
Look, I am not happy. I am not pleased with, I am not in support of the reality that we have 10 or 11 million people in this country undocumented. I wish we didn't have that problem. Quite frankly the decisions led to that problem were made when I was in ninth grade. But we do have that problem. We're not talking about bringing in 11 million people undocumented, they are here now. We have four choices.
RUBIO: We can leave it the way it is, which is de facto amnesty, we can try to round everybody up and send them back, which I don't think is workable.
We can make life miserable for them which - and so they'll deport themselves, I don't think that works either. Or we can try to address it in a way that's responsible but humane. In a way that is not unfair to people doing it the right way and doesn't encourage people to do it the wrong way in the future. And that's what I think we've arrived at and I hope I can convince people that this is the right approach.
CROWLEY: And this very out front position that you have -- and I wasn't suggesting you self-appointed, you seem to be the go-to guy for this gang of eight.
RUBIO: Yes, I know.
CROWLEY: Do you think this would help or hurt Marco Rubio if he perhaps ran for president in 2016?
RUBIO: You know, I haven't even thought about it in that way. And I know it's hard to believe...
(CROSSTALK)
CROWLEY: Seriously, Senator?
RUBIO: ... most of us who live and breathe politics -- I haven't. I really haven't. I have a job. My belief has been if I do my job and I do my job well, I'll have options and opportunities in the future to do things whether it's run for re-election, run for something else or give someone else a chance at public sFervice. And that's how I view this issue. This is a serious problem in Florida. We have I don't know how many millions of people in Florida that are undocumented. It's a serious problem in America.
CROWLEY: My time is running out. So I wanted to point out to you that the mayor's coalition that is trying to get stiff gun control out of the U.S. Congress has put out an ad that's running in Florida that says Rubio would "let criminals and the mentally ill get guns without a background check, 91 percent of Floridians support background checks but Rubio's presidential ambitions make Florida less safe." Will you support the new Toomey/Manchin compromise on expanding background checks to gun shows? RUBIO: To be fair, I haven't read it. So I don't like to comment on things I haven't read, but my position on guns is pretty clear. I believe law-abiding people in the United States have a fundamental constitutional right to bear arms. And I believe criminals and dangerous people should not have access to guns.
CROWLEY: But in general -
(CROSSTALK)
RUBIO: -- there is a law that protects those two things -- but in general the point is many of these gun laws are ineffective. They don't do those things. They either infringe on the rights of law- abiding people and do nothing to keep guns out of the hands of dangerous people. And I'm troubled this debate is about guns. It should be about violence.
Violence is the problem, guns are what they're using. We had a kid build a bomb in a dorm room here recently. The point is that the fact of the matter is we that have a violence problem in the United States. And we are missing a golden opportunity to have an open, honest and serious conversation about why it is that we are having these horrific violent acts occurring in our society. Because everyone's focused on passing these laws that have proven ineffective and will prove ineffective in the future.
CROWLEY: And finally I just quickly have to ask you do you believe the honeymoon trip of Jay-z and Beyonce to Cuba violated existing rules on U.S. travel there?
RUBIO: Well, I don't know where they went. If they didn't violate, it exposes the ridiculousness of the laws we have in place. We are allowing people to travel to Cuba as tourist. They're delivering hard currency to a tyrannical regime who then turns around and uses that to oppress its people. Quite frankly I think hypocritical of the people who took that trip because they didn't meet with some of the people that are actually in trouble today. There's a rapper in Cuba, a hip hop artist in Cuba who is on a hunger strike and has been persecuted because he has political lyrics in his songs. And I wish they would have met with him. If they wanted to know what was going on in Cuba, they should have met with some of the people that are suffering there not simply smoke cigars and take a stroll down the street.
CROWLEY: Senator Marco Rubio, we thank you for your time. One correction from me that was actually not a honeymoon trip but an anniversary trip.
Thank you so much on guns, on immigration...
RUBIO: Thank you.
CROWLEY: ... and on Beyonce and Jay-z. We appreciate it.
RUBIO: Thank you.
BREAK IN TRANSCRIPT
Source