CNN Crossfire - Transcript

CNN Crossfire - Transcripts
BEGALA: Republican Congressman Darrell Issa, Democratic Congresswoman Loretta Sanchez.

Good to see you both.

REP. LORETTA SANCHEZ (D), CALIFORNIA: Thanks. Thanks for having us on.

BEGALA: Reverend.

FALWELL: Loretta, it is likely that President Bush in his second term will get one, two, maybe three opportunities to appoint nominees to the U.S. Supreme Court, possible. And Senate Minority Leader Harry Reid just said that if he sends the same judges through as last time, they will get the same type of treatment, which I assume means obstruct, filibuster, etcetera.

The question I have for you is, if in fact the president does send the same ones through, should the Democratic senators impose a pro-choice litmus test on those nominees?

SANCHEZ: Oh, I don't believe there should be a litmus test about many things on those nominees.

But I think that they should be forthcoming about how they feel about particular cases, so that we have some inkling of whether they are going to be good on civil rights, on privacy issues, I think things that are very, very strong to Americans.

FALWELL: So it wouldn't bother you if they were pro-life? It wouldn't bother you if they were pro-life? SANCHEZ: Hey, you know, there are a lot of pro-life members in my family. And, you know, I still hang out with them. So...

FALWELL: You haven't answered the question.

BEGALA: Well, and, in fact...

REP. DARRELL ISSA ®, CALIFORNIA: She does support a litmus test, is what she's...

(CROSSTALK)

BEGALA: Let me turn around and ask you if you do. I think Democrats are less guilty of the litmus test here. For example, the new leader of the Democrats in the Senate, Harry Reid, is pro-life. I don't see pro-choice leading the Republican Party. There seems to be...

(APPLAUSE)

ISSA: What about Tom Davis?

BEGALA: Tom Davis?

ISSA: He's very pro-choice.

SANCHEZ: I think they're leaving the Republican Party.

BEGALA: The judges that the president has sent up...

(CROSSTALK)

FALWELL: Well, I have a litmus test. I want pro-life, pro- family judges on the Supreme Court.

(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)

(CROSSTALK)

BEGALA: Why doesn't the president say that? Why doesn't-I admire your candor. Why doesn't the president tell the truth and say that and say, I won't appoint anyone to the bench who doesn't want to criminalize abortion? That's the truth. Why doesn't he tell the truth?

ISSA: Because that's simply not-that's simply not his test.

BEGALA: He has had 100 judges. Can you name who is pro-choice?

ISSA: He has asked for-he has asked for and gone through a whole vetting process. And I can specifically, as Loretta can, speak about California. That vetting process included Senator Feinstein. That vetting process was about qualified judges for the courts.

And that has been his litmus test, is people who will fair-who have the intellect to do it, the experience to do it, and will fairly interpret the laws as they are. And that's all he's asked for. And that's what Republicans are asking for, is the letter of the law is all we're looking for. And we've been denied it repeatedly by the threat of filibuster in the Senate. And that has been a litmus test against anyone who got too conservative, even if they were incredibly capable and bright.

SANCHEZ: I don't believe that America wants their judges to be too conservative.

(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)

SANCHEZ: I believe that they believe-that that they believe in civil rights.

(CROSSTALK)

SANCHEZ: That they believe in privacy, that, you know, our court has served us well because there have been people who have been central figures, who have been in the middle of issues, have decided things 5-4 or 4-5.

(CROSSTALK)

ISSA: Look, that's wonderful, Loretta, but that's not the facts on the ground.

The facts on the ground are that you have judges that would have gotten 70 and 80 votes, including Democrat votes, who were simply agreed to be kept by filibuster. If you bring it to the vote and you get 55 votes, that's the will of the people, not when you hold it back.

(CROSSTALK)

BEGALA: And no doubt the president will raise that tonight. And I think it's important to discuss it.

ISSA: As well he should.

BEGALA: But I think the centerpiece of his domestic agenda seems to be a plan to partially privatize Social Security.

(CROSSTALK)

ISSA: No. The center of his is...

BEGALA: Of course it is.

ISSA: The center of his is in fact to provide personal ownership over people's retirement.

BEGALA: But that's Orwellian doublespeak, sir.

(CROSSTALK)

ISSA: It's not Orwellian. BEGALA: He's trying to privatize Social Security.

(CROSSTALK)

BEGALA: ... tell the truth?

ISSA: Right now, Loretta and I control the lockbox. And he's offering 115 million people the keys to their individual lockboxes.

(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)

FALWELL: And, Loretta, the Quinnipiac poll January 25 to 31 on investing Social Security taxes in the stock market, they asked the question, how do you describe the Social Security system today? Sixty-seven percent said in crisis or in serious problems. Why not let the American people make their own mind up where their money is invested?

(APPLAUSE)

SANCHEZ: The American people get to make up their own mind where it's invested. They have got 401(k)s. They have got TSP plans if they are in the federal government.

ISSA: That's after the first 13 percent is taken involuntarily away from them, spent by the government and then an IOU put in place.

(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)

BEGALA: Let me ask you-let me just ask you a very much simple...

SANCHEZ: No, no, no.

(CROSSTALK)

SANCHEZ: They actually have a guaranteed benefit. Every person who works in America for a certain amount of time has a guaranteed benefit. That means...

ISSA: Show me the money.

SANCHEZ: That whether you have...

(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)

SANCHEZ: ... that whether you have loss, whether you grow broke, that you have a guaranteed benefit, which means you will not end up in poverty most likely when you get old.

(CROSSTALK)

(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)

BEGALA: Let me get you both on the record. Congressman Issa, will you pledge to oppose any effort by President Bush to cut the guaranteed benefit for present or future retirees?

ISSA: I guarantee that we will keep our guarantee to retirees. Your definition of cut, unfortunately, might include not continuing to index ahead of the rate of inflection, which the commission, which included Republicans and Democrats...

(CROSSTALK)

BEGALA: I only speak English, a little bit of Spanish, but was that a yes or no, sir? Will you pledge not to cut benefits?

ISSA: I will pledge to keep our promise to the seniors, which includes, which includes that retirement. It does not include indexes greater than the rate of inflation. And, as you know...

SANCHEZ: It currently does include that.

ISSA: No, the pledge doesn't. The current law does.

And choosing the right index is part of what the bipartisan Social Security Commission said needed to be done to fix the system.

FALWELL: Loretta, tonight, sitting in the House gallery with the first lady, among others, will be two recent voters who voted for the first time in their lives, one from Afghanistan, one from Iraq.

And the millions in the last four months who have voted for the first time in their life, half of them have been women, who now have been invited to the human race. They are on equal standing with the men there. My question is, how do you explain the deafening silence of America's feminists?

SANCHEZ: Oh, I think it's incredibly wonderful that, in particular, in the Middle East, we have had three elections actually in the last month by those populations.

ISSA: Palestinian Authority.

SANCHEZ: Because don't forget the Palestinian Authority.

FALWELL: You haven't my question, though, yet.

SANCHEZ: I'm just saying, I think it's exciting. I think it's great. And...

(CROSSTALK)

FALWELL: Well, you are the first feminist I have heard say that and only under pressure on CROSSFIRE.

SANCHEZ: And the women of the Congress applaud that. We have gone back to Afghanistan. We have gone into Iraq. We've met with the women. We're really excited. We're excited that they were on the ballots.

FALWELL: I hope CROSSFIRE will take that bite and play it over and over and over.

BEGALA: I do, too.

SANCHEZ: We're excited.

(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)

BEGALA: But let me say for the record, for the record, it was American senators who were raising concerns about the Taliban long before September 11.

(CROSSTALK)

ISSA: I heard Hillary say that at Tufts University. The problem was, she was married to the president and she raised it without doing anything about it throughout the Clinton administration. So, saying it was raised isn't good enough.

BEGALA: We can attack-you can attack Bill Clinton all you like. But let me ask you about President Bush tonight.

SANCHEZ: No, no, no. Wait a minute.

(CROSSTALK)

BEGALA: Just a second. Excuse me, Congresswoman. Excuse me.

SANCHEZ: The Women's Feminist Majority of Los Angeles, the wife of Jay Leno...

BEGALA: Mavis Leno.

SANCHEZ: ... were actually the people in the beginning, the women in the beginning who were pushing it in the state legislatures, etcetera.

(CROSSTALK)

(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)

ISSA: I just want to say, where was Hillary until she made a speech saying she was there?

BEGALA: Let me ask you about our president. He'll be standing tonight in that historic chamber.

(CROSSTALK)

BEGALA: Standing at...

ISSA: The senators will be sitting. We'll be standing.

BEGALA: The president will be standing delivering a speech.

And as he makes the pledges and promises that he makes, aren't you worried, when he talks about Iraq, that people will remember that he said there were weapons of mass destruction, when there were none, that there were chemical weapons, when there were none, that there were biological weapons, when there were none, that there was a nuclear program, when there were none, that there were links to al Qaeda, when there were none?

Doesn't our president have a credibility crisis now when he talks about Iraq?

(CROSSTALK)

ISSA: No, he doesn't. FALWELL: But Mr. Clinton told him that when he took over the office.

ISSA: He doesn't have one.

BEGALA: Really?

ISSA: Because he made the difference of a vote. He made the difference of Saddam being in power, out of power. And the things you're talking about, President Clinton absolutely called for in 1998, made the same claims. Look...

BEGALA: Did not lead us to war. No Americans died, because there were no-there was no threat.

ISSA: You're right. He said there were tragedies, this man was a great danger. He called for regime change, and he did nothing.

(CROSSTALK)

(APPLAUSE)

SANCHEZ: No, no, no, no.

BEGALA: There was no threat.

SANCHEZ: He told us there were weapons of mass destruction. He went over a line and he invaded a country, the first time we have done that in our history.

FALWELL: Thank God he did.

ISSA: And thank God he did.

(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)

ISSA: You know, look, you can't have it both ways. You can't call for regime change and then not do it.

(CROSSTALK)

BEGALA: Just a second.

Yes, Ronald Reagan called for regime change in the Soviet Union, but he wasn't fool enough to invade, OK? Bill Clinton called for regime change here and had sanctions, bombings...

(CROSSTALK)

ISSA: And I know you were solidly there for him when he called for it.

BEGALA: Yes, I was. Sanctions, bombings and...

(CROSSTALK)

ISSA: What happened to you since then?

BEGALA: ... was the policy that we had under Bush Sr.

FALWELL: FDR called for regime change in Tokyo and Berlin. And thank God he did attack.

BEGALA: Oh, but this guy wasn't Hitler. Oh, my goodness.

SANCHEZ: Well, we were invaded.

BEGALA: This guy was a tin horn dictator.

SANCHEZ: We were invaded and we were attacked in World War II. That's the difference.

(CROSSTALK)

ISSA: Because he only killed two million people.

SANCHEZ: No, no, no, no.

BEGALA: He was no threat to America.

SANCHEZ: You know-and what people don't understand is, we have paid a cost.

The only time-and this is my true belief. If you go back and you look at this, the only time that we should send soldiers in and ask our soldiers to give up their lives, to tell them, I needed you, is for our own freedom and for America's freedom.

(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)

BEGALA: That has to be the last word.

(CROSSTALK)

BEGALA: Congresswoman Loretta Sanchez, Congressman Darrell Issa, both from California.

ISSA: We're there for the freedom of the world. And that's part of our mandate.

BEGALA: We'll have to continue this debate...

SANCHEZ: No, it's not.

CNN Crossfire - Transcripts
BEGALA: Republican Congressman Darrell Issa, Democratic Congresswoman Loretta Sanchez.

Good to see you both.

REP. LORETTA SANCHEZ (D), CALIFORNIA: Thanks. Thanks for having us on.

BEGALA: Reverend.

FALWELL: Loretta, it is likely that President Bush in his second term will get one, two, maybe three opportunities to appoint nominees to the U.S. Supreme Court, possible. And Senate Minority Leader Harry Reid just said that if he sends the same judges through as last time, they will get the same type of treatment, which I assume means obstruct, filibuster, etcetera.

The question I have for you is, if in fact the president does send the same ones through, should the Democratic senators impose a pro-choice litmus test on those nominees?

SANCHEZ: Oh, I don't believe there should be a litmus test about many things on those nominees.

But I think that they should be forthcoming about how they feel about particular cases, so that we have some inkling of whether they are going to be good on civil rights, on privacy issues, I think things that are very, very strong to Americans.

FALWELL: So it wouldn't bother you if they were pro-life? It wouldn't bother you if they were pro-life? SANCHEZ: Hey, you know, there are a lot of pro-life members in my family. And, you know, I still hang out with them. So...

FALWELL: You haven't answered the question.

BEGALA: Well, and, in fact...

REP. DARRELL ISSA ®, CALIFORNIA: She does support a litmus test, is what she's...

(CROSSTALK)

BEGALA: Let me turn around and ask you if you do. I think Democrats are less guilty of the litmus test here. For example, the new leader of the Democrats in the Senate, Harry Reid, is pro-life. I don't see pro-choice leading the Republican Party. There seems to be...

(APPLAUSE)

ISSA: What about Tom Davis?

BEGALA: Tom Davis?

ISSA: He's very pro-choice.

SANCHEZ: I think they're leaving the Republican Party.

BEGALA: The judges that the president has sent up...

(CROSSTALK)

FALWELL: Well, I have a litmus test. I want pro-life, pro- family judges on the Supreme Court.

(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)

(CROSSTALK)

BEGALA: Why doesn't the president say that? Why doesn't-I admire your candor. Why doesn't the president tell the truth and say that and say, I won't appoint anyone to the bench who doesn't want to criminalize abortion? That's the truth. Why doesn't he tell the truth?

ISSA: Because that's simply not-that's simply not his test.

BEGALA: He has had 100 judges. Can you name who is pro-choice?

ISSA: He has asked for-he has asked for and gone through a whole vetting process. And I can specifically, as Loretta can, speak about California. That vetting process included Senator Feinstein. That vetting process was about qualified judges for the courts.

And that has been his litmus test, is people who will fair-who have the intellect to do it, the experience to do it, and will fairly interpret the laws as they are. And that's all he's asked for. And that's what Republicans are asking for, is the letter of the law is all we're looking for. And we've been denied it repeatedly by the threat of filibuster in the Senate. And that has been a litmus test against anyone who got too conservative, even if they were incredibly capable and bright.

SANCHEZ: I don't believe that America wants their judges to be too conservative.

(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)

SANCHEZ: I believe that they believe-that that they believe in civil rights.

(CROSSTALK)

SANCHEZ: That they believe in privacy, that, you know, our court has served us well because there have been people who have been central figures, who have been in the middle of issues, have decided things 5-4 or 4-5.

(CROSSTALK)

ISSA: Look, that's wonderful, Loretta, but that's not the facts on the ground.

The facts on the ground are that you have judges that would have gotten 70 and 80 votes, including Democrat votes, who were simply agreed to be kept by filibuster. If you bring it to the vote and you get 55 votes, that's the will of the people, not when you hold it back.

(CROSSTALK)

BEGALA: And no doubt the president will raise that tonight. And I think it's important to discuss it.

ISSA: As well he should.

BEGALA: But I think the centerpiece of his domestic agenda seems to be a plan to partially privatize Social Security.

(CROSSTALK)

ISSA: No. The center of his is...

BEGALA: Of course it is.

ISSA: The center of his is in fact to provide personal ownership over people's retirement.

BEGALA: But that's Orwellian doublespeak, sir.

(CROSSTALK)

ISSA: It's not Orwellian. BEGALA: He's trying to privatize Social Security.

(CROSSTALK)

BEGALA: ... tell the truth?

ISSA: Right now, Loretta and I control the lockbox. And he's offering 115 million people the keys to their individual lockboxes.

(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)

FALWELL: And, Loretta, the Quinnipiac poll January 25 to 31 on investing Social Security taxes in the stock market, they asked the question, how do you describe the Social Security system today? Sixty-seven percent said in crisis or in serious problems. Why not let the American people make their own mind up where their money is invested?

(APPLAUSE)

SANCHEZ: The American people get to make up their own mind where it's invested. They have got 401(k)s. They have got TSP plans if they are in the federal government.

ISSA: That's after the first 13 percent is taken involuntarily away from them, spent by the government and then an IOU put in place.

(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)

BEGALA: Let me ask you-let me just ask you a very much simple...

SANCHEZ: No, no, no.

(CROSSTALK)

SANCHEZ: They actually have a guaranteed benefit. Every person who works in America for a certain amount of time has a guaranteed benefit. That means...

ISSA: Show me the money.

SANCHEZ: That whether you have...

(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)

SANCHEZ: ... that whether you have loss, whether you grow broke, that you have a guaranteed benefit, which means you will not end up in poverty most likely when you get old.

(CROSSTALK)

(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)

BEGALA: Let me get you both on the record. Congressman Issa, will you pledge to oppose any effort by President Bush to cut the guaranteed benefit for present or future retirees?

ISSA: I guarantee that we will keep our guarantee to retirees. Your definition of cut, unfortunately, might include not continuing to index ahead of the rate of inflection, which the commission, which included Republicans and Democrats...

(CROSSTALK)

BEGALA: I only speak English, a little bit of Spanish, but was that a yes or no, sir? Will you pledge not to cut benefits?

ISSA: I will pledge to keep our promise to the seniors, which includes, which includes that retirement. It does not include indexes greater than the rate of inflation. And, as you know...

SANCHEZ: It currently does include that.

ISSA: No, the pledge doesn't. The current law does.

And choosing the right index is part of what the bipartisan Social Security Commission said needed to be done to fix the system.

FALWELL: Loretta, tonight, sitting in the House gallery with the first lady, among others, will be two recent voters who voted for the first time in their lives, one from Afghanistan, one from Iraq.

And the millions in the last four months who have voted for the first time in their life, half of them have been women, who now have been invited to the human race. They are on equal standing with the men there. My question is, how do you explain the deafening silence of America's feminists?

SANCHEZ: Oh, I think it's incredibly wonderful that, in particular, in the Middle East, we have had three elections actually in the last month by those populations.

ISSA: Palestinian Authority.

SANCHEZ: Because don't forget the Palestinian Authority.

FALWELL: You haven't my question, though, yet.

SANCHEZ: I'm just saying, I think it's exciting. I think it's great. And...

(CROSSTALK)

FALWELL: Well, you are the first feminist I have heard say that and only under pressure on CROSSFIRE.

SANCHEZ: And the women of the Congress applaud that. We have gone back to Afghanistan. We have gone into Iraq. We've met with the women. We're really excited. We're excited that they were on the ballots.

FALWELL: I hope CROSSFIRE will take that bite and play it over and over and over.

BEGALA: I do, too.

SANCHEZ: We're excited.

(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)

BEGALA: But let me say for the record, for the record, it was American senators who were raising concerns about the Taliban long before September 11.

(CROSSTALK)

ISSA: I heard Hillary say that at Tufts University. The problem was, she was married to the president and she raised it without doing anything about it throughout the Clinton administration. So, saying it was raised isn't good enough.

BEGALA: We can attack-you can attack Bill Clinton all you like. But let me ask you about President Bush tonight.

SANCHEZ: No, no, no. Wait a minute.

(CROSSTALK)

BEGALA: Just a second. Excuse me, Congresswoman. Excuse me.

SANCHEZ: The Women's Feminist Majority of Los Angeles, the wife of Jay Leno...

BEGALA: Mavis Leno.

SANCHEZ: ... were actually the people in the beginning, the women in the beginning who were pushing it in the state legislatures, etcetera.

(CROSSTALK)

(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)

ISSA: I just want to say, where was Hillary until she made a speech saying she was there?

BEGALA: Let me ask you about our president. He'll be standing tonight in that historic chamber.

(CROSSTALK)

BEGALA: Standing at...

ISSA: The senators will be sitting. We'll be standing.

BEGALA: The president will be standing delivering a speech.

And as he makes the pledges and promises that he makes, aren't you worried, when he talks about Iraq, that people will remember that he said there were weapons of mass destruction, when there were none, that there were chemical weapons, when there were none, that there were biological weapons, when there were none, that there was a nuclear program, when there were none, that there were links to al Qaeda, when there were none?

Doesn't our president have a credibility crisis now when he talks about Iraq?

(CROSSTALK)

ISSA: No, he doesn't. FALWELL: But Mr. Clinton told him that when he took over the office.

ISSA: He doesn't have one.

BEGALA: Really?

ISSA: Because he made the difference of a vote. He made the difference of Saddam being in power, out of power. And the things you're talking about, President Clinton absolutely called for in 1998, made the same claims. Look...

BEGALA: Did not lead us to war. No Americans died, because there were no-there was no threat.

ISSA: You're right. He said there were tragedies, this man was a great danger. He called for regime change, and he did nothing.

(CROSSTALK)

(APPLAUSE)

SANCHEZ: No, no, no, no.

BEGALA: There was no threat.

SANCHEZ: He told us there were weapons of mass destruction. He went over a line and he invaded a country, the first time we have done that in our history.

FALWELL: Thank God he did.

ISSA: And thank God he did.

(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)

ISSA: You know, look, you can't have it both ways. You can't call for regime change and then not do it.

(CROSSTALK)

BEGALA: Just a second.

Yes, Ronald Reagan called for regime change in the Soviet Union, but he wasn't fool enough to invade, OK? Bill Clinton called for regime change here and had sanctions, bombings...

(CROSSTALK)

ISSA: And I know you were solidly there for him when he called for it.

BEGALA: Yes, I was. Sanctions, bombings and...

(CROSSTALK)

ISSA: What happened to you since then?

BEGALA: ... was the policy that we had under Bush Sr.

FALWELL: FDR called for regime change in Tokyo and Berlin. And thank God he did attack.

BEGALA: Oh, but this guy wasn't Hitler. Oh, my goodness.

SANCHEZ: Well, we were invaded.

BEGALA: This guy was a tin horn dictator.

SANCHEZ: We were invaded and we were attacked in World War II. That's the difference.

(CROSSTALK)

ISSA: Because he only killed two million people.

SANCHEZ: No, no, no, no.

BEGALA: He was no threat to America.

SANCHEZ: You know-and what people don't understand is, we have paid a cost.

The only time-and this is my true belief. If you go back and you look at this, the only time that we should send soldiers in and ask our soldiers to give up their lives, to tell them, I needed you, is for our own freedom and for America's freedom.

(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)

BEGALA: That has to be the last word.

(CROSSTALK)

BEGALA: Congresswoman Loretta Sanchez, Congressman Darrell Issa, both from California.

ISSA: We're there for the freedom of the world. And that's part of our mandate.

BEGALA: We'll have to continue this debate...

SANCHEZ: No, it's not.

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0502/02/cf.01.html