MSNBC "The Ed Show" - Transcript

Interview

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SCHULTZ: Democratic Leader Nancy Pelosi announced a plan for the
discharge petition last week. The petition keeps the focus on extending
tax cuts for 98 percent of Americans. I spoke to Leader Pelosi late this
afternoon about the strategy and the latest developments in the debt
standoff.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

SCHULTZ: Leader Nancy Pelosi, thanks for joining us tonight.

REP. NANCY PELOSI (D-CA), MINORITY LEADER: My pleasure.

SCHULTZ: The discharge petition, what are your expectations?

PERINO: Well, my expectations have already been exceeded because we
have over 150 members, House Democrats who have signed it and we`ve only
been -- we were only in session a few hours today. So, tomorrow --

SCHULTZ: Will you get to 18?

PERINO: That would require some Republicans to sign up. What we will
get is the attention of the country on the fact that we can bring this vote
up. We can do it by practically unanimous consent. Everybody agrees in
the country and in the Congress that we should have a middle income tax
cut.

The -- what is holding it up is the Republicans holding it hostage for
tax cuts for the wealthy. But left to it on its own, standalone, we think
it would get a unanimous vote in the Congress.

SCHULTZ: The Boehner proposal on its merit, characterize it for us.
PERINO: Well, I think it`s an assault on the middle class, on our
seniors, investments in the future. We want to come to the table. We know
we have to have growth in order -- if you want to reduce the deficit,
create jobs.

So we know we have to have growth. We know we have to make cuts. We
know we have to have revenue. You cannot get from here to there without
it. And so, if you read closely what they have in their letter, even
though it`s bare bones, you have voucherizing of Medicare, you have a
return to the Ryan budget, which priorities are not priorities that I think
the American people share.

SCHULTZ: Rates, can there be a deal done with the rates not going up?

PERINO: No. I`m an appropriator for a long time in the Congress
since I was (INAUDIBLE). We used to have an expression. It`s not the
price. It`s the money.

This is not to be punitive on the people who make over $250,000. It`s
just to be fair to the entire country. You need that additional revenue in
order to reduce the deficit and continue to make investments in growth.

SCHULTZ: So, if Boehner says that -- if Speaker Boehner says that,
you know, we`re not going to move on the rates, where are we?

PELOSI: Well, I would hope that`s just a bargaining position. But
the fact is that we have talked about it two step. Do a down payment on
cuts, on investments and on revenue this year. And then in the next year,
take the time to go over what we would do with real revenue reform.
You can`t do it in a matter of weeks right now.

SCHULTZ: Through this whole process, you want the rates to go up --
been very clear on that. Medicare age stays the same. That doesn`t
increase. And the benefits don`t change.

How confident are you that you can protect all of that and get what
you want?

PELOSI: Well, I think it`s important for the American people to
understand the terms that we`re using here. Raising the Medicare age
doesn`t really in the overall scheme of things reduce cost. It just makes
more of a problem.

We still have to deal with the issues of between 65 and 67. So to
raise the age sounds OK, that sounds like maybe to some a good idea. I
don`t even think it sounds like a good idea. But it`s not the money raiser
people think that it is.

So we know that if we go into this, as we did in the Affordable Care
Act, we did two things. We slowed the increase of payments to providers in
order to use that money to prolong the life of Medicare. We also built
into the Affordable Care Act rewarding performance and quality and value of
procedures, not quantity of procedures.

So, it`s about quality, not just quantity.

SCHULTZ: How convinced are you that they really want to get the
entitlements and get them going in a different direction? I mean, Boehner
comes out and he offers basically the Ryan plan.

PELOSI: Yes.

SCHULTZ: This is really what they want, isn`t it?

PELOSI: Well, there`s a range as to what they want. There`s some who
have said publicly for a long time now, they think Medicare should wither
on the vine.

The Ryan budget is exactly a furtherance of a withering on the vine
for Medicare. It makes it a voucher. It takes money from the Medicare
system and uses it for high-end tax cuts. I mean, it`s completely opposed
to perpetuating and strengthening Medicare.

So if you`re going to have this discussion, I`d love to have it in
full view because you have, who was it, Voltaire, who said, if you want to
debate with me, define your terms. What do you mean by restructuring
Medicare? Making it a voucher, wither on the vine? Or can we work
together to strengthen it, to prolong its life, to increase its benefits as
we did in the Affordable Care Act?

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SCHULTZ: Finally, Congresswoman, there`s been so much made about
Christmas, the holiday, that Congress is notorious for taking it up to the
very last 11th hour and doing something to get out of town. Do you want to
respond to that?

PELOSI: Well, I think that`s an irresponsible position. And again,
we`re waiting for the Republicans to come to the table seriously. Not to
toy with the Christmas holiday, but to let people have confidence to buy
toys.

We -- the consumers are waiting to hear, the markets are waiting for
the confidence to hear that we`re going to be doing something. And even
these three weeks, these two weeks are vital weeks in terms of our economic
growth and what we would like to see happen. People have to know that come
January, they can pay the bills for what they bought in December, and we
want them to have that middle income tax cut that puts $2,200 more in the
pockets of middle income families. It`s 98 percent of the American people.

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SCHULTZ: Welcome back to THE ED SHOW.

Republicans say that it will hurt business if we raise revenues. But
CEOs and business leaders are telling Leader Nancy Pelosi a different
story.

More now on my interview with the Democratic leader in the House.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

SCHULTZ: We put a graph on TV last night. Corporate profits through
the roof, wages down over the last 10 years. There`s a real separation
there.

What are the CEOs saying when they come on Capitol Hill? Can they go
for a rate increase?

PELOSI: Overall, that`s what we`re hearing from them. They
understand that revenue has to be part of it. That doesn`t address the
disparity you talked about --

SCHULTZ: Sure.

PELOSI: -- which is an immorality in the system. But in terms of what they say when they come here about this, I don`t even remember one of them saying we cannot touch revenues.

I don`t know why they haven`t convinced our Republican colleagues that
everybody recognizes if you want growth, you need to have investments. But
you want cuts, so you have to establish your priorities carefully, and you
must have revenue to make that happen.

The tax cuts for the high end are one of the biggest factors
increasing the deficit. Just think of it this way: tax cuts for the
wealthy, give the tax cuts to the wealthy and send the bill to your
children, because it`s only going to increase the deficit. It`s not going
to create jobs. It`s not going to inject demand into the economy that will
create jobs. So, this is a bad deal all around.

What we need is to make a judgment about what we do. Does it reduce
the deficit?

SCHULTZ: OK.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

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