Fox Hannity & Colmes - Transcript

Fox News Network

SHOW: FOX HANNITY & CO 9:00 PM EST

October 29, 2004 Friday

HEADLINE: Interview With Jerrold Nadler, Curt Weldon

BYLINE: Sean Hannity, Alan Colmes

GUESTS: Jerrold Nadler, Curt Weldon

BODY:

BREAK IN TRANSCRIPT
COLMES: But how will voters react to this news on Tuesday?

Joining us now, New York Democratic Congressman Jerrold Nadler, and we will be joined momentarily by Pennsylvania Republican Congressman Curt Weldon.

Congressman Nadler, good to see you once again. I don't think the president or John Kerry will play politics with this.

REP. JERROLD NADLER (D), NEW YORK: No.

COLMES: People on their behalf might do that. Do you see this tape having any effect on the elections?

NADLER: I really don't think so. I mean, the first thing it illustrates is that they remind people that George Bush did not capture or kill Usama bin Laden. He's still out there. He's still doing things.

Secondly, I mean, obviously he's our enemy. He wanted to remind us of that. He didn't specifically say anything more than what we already knew so I don't see this as a major development in the campaign other than to remind people that we are at war with these people.

COLMES: So you-you see it as a plus for John Kerry? That people are going to see this and be reminded that Usama bin Laden is out there?

NADLER: Well, I think some people may be reminded. I'm not trying to think of this as a plus or a minus. But I think it does remind people that he's still out there.

COLMES: And also, look, there was a report. "The Washington Post" did a series last week that talked about how-it quoted deputy CIA director McLaughlin, talking about how the agency put $80 million away out of Afghanistan into Iraq. Resources were redirected from our Afghanistan into Iraq to fight this Iraq war.

NADLER: Well, the fact of the matter is, and Senator Kerry has said this many times, that the war in Iraq was a diversion from the war on terrorism, on Islamic terrorism.

And we did-we didn't take Kerry to say this. The national security adviser, Dick Clark, testified to the 9/11 Commission last summer that we diverted a lot of money, I think it was $700 million, diverted a lot of money and troops from Afghanistan.

In fact, Senator Kerry said if we kept the troops there we would have caught Usama bin Laden a long time ago.

COLMES: Has this been a bad couple of days for the president? I mean, you've got this story. You've got the munitions. They put out someone today to talk about having collected the munitions, but it's not clear that the munitions that this major said he got were the exact ones being talked about.

NADLER: Well, I think-I think it has been the past couple of days because it has emphasized the incompetence of the administration in fighting this war, frankly.

I mean, they went into it there without adequate troops. They went into it unnecessarily without exhausting what they should have exhausted, but that's a separate issue. But they didn't properly arm the troops. I mean, our troops had to send home to take up collections for proper body armor and armor for the Humvees. They didn't secure the munitions. They didn't even secure the nuclear facilities at al Tuwaitha.

COLMES: Al Tuwaitha is another incident, because we're talking about Al Qa Qaa, but Tuwaitha we knew for years-for a couple of years now we've know this is a chief nuclear facility, and there was looting that went on there. And very little media attention until now.

NADLER: And there-How can you go to war because you're afraid they may be developing nuclear weapons-as they weren't-but that was the reason for going to war, that they were developing nuclear weapons and other weapons of mass destruction, and not detail 50 or 100 troops to go and secure the nuclear facilities that you know about? Instead, the peasants looted it and took away God knows what.

HANNITY: Hey, Congressman, let me get some facts on the table here, because you're not being honest with the American people tonight. And frankly John Kerry has been lying to the American people all week.

NADLER: I think he was very honest.

HANNITY: You cannot secure munitions that aren't there, No. 1, and we had moved and destroyed them, No. 2. You have got to be accurate. Stop accusing the president...

NADLER: Well, no...

HANNITY: Let me finish my point. And the other point is, if John Kerry were president, Saddam Hussein would still be in power, and he'd have those munitions and the 400,000 tons we'd have, and Saddam would have control over them. So stop politicizing the war.

NADLER: Well, you made-you made two-you made two points. And let me answer both points.

First of all, I was talking about Al Tuwaitha. Not one attempt was made to secure it, and the nuclear materials, how much and what we don't know, was looted and stolen by peasants and maybe given to al Qaeda, for all we know.

Second of all, here there's conflicting evidence as to whether all the munitions were there or not. The fact is, we didn't send in troops to secure it and hold it. We sent them to visit and leave, and that was incompetent.

The other point you make-what was the other point he just made?

HANNITY: No, no. We've got to get to a broader point here.

NADLER: No, no, the other point you just made is very important, that Saddam Hussein would still be in power.

HANNITY: That's right.

NADLER: Yes, Saddam Hussein would still be in power.

HANNITY: That's right.

NADLER: Yes, he would be contained by our...

HANNITY: No, he wouldn't.

NADLER: And Usama bin Laden might be in an American prison if we hadn't diverted our resources.

HANNITY: You're missing the point. You're missing the point. Because all 400,000 tons of munitions we destroyed would-including all of these-would be at his disposal, would be at his children's disposal if John Kerry had his way with his vacillating and flip-flopping point.

NADLER: No.

HANNITY: Let me finish. There's a broader issue here.

NADLER: But that's not correct, because...

HANNITY: Yes, it is correct. He'd be in power. He'd be in power with the munitions.

NADLER: No.

HANNITY: Yes.

NADLER: He'd be in power, but remember John Kerry and most of the rest of us were saying that the inspectors should go in and thoroughly go in and, backed up by troops if necessary, to make sure they weren't interfered with...

HANNITY: Twelve years, 17 resolutions. John Kerry-when we finally captured Saddam Hussein, John Kerry said, "I supported that we disarmed Saddam." That's what he said. He voted for the war. He wouldn't fund the war.

NADLER: No. He voted-He voted for a resolution to empower the president to do what had to be done.

HANNITY: OK. We're going over old ground. Let me bring up another point here.

Why-there's a question we've got to decide here. The polls out today, the Fox News poll shows that on the issue of Iraq the president leads Kerry in double digits, who's better able to handle it. On the war on terrorism, the president has nearly a 20-point advantage.

Why would Usama bin Laden, who's been quiet for so long, come out and virtually try and influence the election today in favor of John Kerry by attacking the president the way he did? Let's be analytical here. Why would he do that if he didn't think Bush was a stronger leader?

NADLER: Well, first of all, I don't think we ought to give any credibility to anything bin Laden says. And I don't know whether he was trying to influence the election for the president or against the president.

HANNITY: He's not?

NADLER: And he probably knows that by attacking the president, that people will go, uh-uh-uh. By his attacking the president, people should assume they should vote for the president, because they'll go against anything he wants.

But the fact of the matter is, I don't know that he understands American politics, or thinks he understands it.

HANNITY: You don't know?

NADLER: No, I don't think he understand.

COLMES: We have to take a quick break. We'll pick it up right there when we get back.

Still to come tonight, brand-new Fox poll numbers out today. We'll tell you about them and why both campaigns have reason to be happy.

Then missing ballots, allegations of voter intimidation, provisional ballots and malfunctioning voter machines. Just a few problems that we're looking forward to on Tuesday. We'll tell you how this could all play out.

And Sean had a chance to speak with Arnold Schwarzenegger before he campaigned with President Bush. We'll play you that exclusive interview, coming on HANNITY & COLMES.

(NEWSBREAK)

HANNITY: There you have it. Only four days left until Americans go to the polls and re-elect George w. Bush as president of the United States.

But the question is how will the new bin Laden tape impact the result of this coming election?

We're now joined by New York Democratic Congressman Charles Nadler, and also joining us a little late, Pennsylvania Republican Congressman Curt Weldon. We'll forgive you because you're a Republican, Congressman.

REP. CURT WELDON ®, PENNSYLVANIA: Sorry.

HANNITY: Let me-this is important, though, because obviously, bin Laden, who's been so silent, decided to come out now and impact this election and influence this election.

And in the course of what he said, he says how to avoid another Manhattan. He says Bush is still deceiving you. He says we had no difficulty in dealing with Bush and his regimes. They resemble our countries. Bush adopted despotism. On and on and on.

He's attacking Bush. Clearly, he wants George Bush to lose, and the question is why?

WELDON: Well, he wants the same thing that Kim Jong-Il wants in North Korea. I took the only delegation over there. And I can tell you, they're waiting until after the election to do anything.

They told me, they said, "We'd rather have a Bill Clinton back in office." I mean, and I said that in front of Democrats and Republicans.

Clearly, bin Laden thinks that he can do in America what he did in Spain. That's cause some kind of a threat or an attack right before the election and impact the election. I mean, it's very obvious what they're trying to accomplish.

NADLER: Except that-except that he has to know...

HANNITY: Hang on. Congressman Weldon-let me go back to Congressman. We've been giving you a lot of time, Congressman Nadler. Let me get him up to speed here.

This is important, because on the issue of debate, dealing with the war on terrorism, American people in today's Fox News poll, 20 percent say the president is better able to deal with that. Double digits, better able to deal with the situation in Iraq.

And the fact that bin Laden had to send a videotape and couldn't act with terror, which we know he'd rather do, doesn't that show that we have been effective in securing our country more, defending our country and being on the offensive? This guy is making this video in some cave somewhere.

WELDON: Absolutely. It's his only-it's his last-ditch effort to try to somehow help John Kerry win and George Bush lose. The president has done a fantastic job at security our borders. We've shut done some major attempts that caused terrorist incidents here at home, and that's because of our increased intelligence.

And because we took the lessons that President Clinton had all during the '90's and didn't listen to. The three reports by the Gilmore Commission.

HANNITY: Absolutely.

WELDON: All of those were issued before 9/11, but weren't paid attention. The need for data transformation, data integration was all done before 9/11.

HANNITY: Now one of the-one of the most impactful things I'm seeing in the polls is the switch with women and female voters in the country, Congressman Nadler, and where Al Gore won with 11 percent, John Kerry is only up just a couple of percentage points in this last poll.

And here's the point here. This issue is about national security. So when I look at John Kerry's record, Congressman Nadler, and I see a guy that didn't join Reagan in defeating the Soviet Union, the guy that wanted the nuclear freeze; when I see the guy that voted against 27 -- to cancel the 27 major systems, weapons systems that comprise our military; that wanted to cut the intelligence community by $8 million after the first Trade Center attack; and that flip-flopped on Iraq, I'm seeing a guy-and I've got to see it from bin Laden's viewpoint-I think he's weak on defense.

NADLER: Right.

HANNITY: Wouldn't bin Laden think the same thing?

NADLER: Well, I don't know what bin Laden would say. But bin Laden is not stupid. Whatever else he is, he's not stupid. And he has to know that if what he said is read as endorsing and supporting Kerry, that people like you are going to say exactly that and it's going to help Bush. So one could argue that he really wants Bush elected, and that's what he just did.

HANNITY: You just said he didn't understand American politics just a moment ago.

NADLER: Well, he may not. But the point is, it's not clear at all what he's saying.

But the second thing is he-you talked about Kerry voting against weapons systems, the same weapons systems that at that time Cheney and Rumsfeld were saying...

HANNITY: Not true.

NADLER: ... let's eliminate, and the same intelligence vote that Porter Goss...

HANNITY: Not true.

NADLER: ... President Bush's new-yes, it is true.

COLMES: Porter Goss voted for greater cuts than John Kerry did. Dick Cheney voted for the same or one of the same cuts in defense that John Kerry did.

NADLER: And the reasons-and the reasons-and the reasons they were voting for those cuts then is they were cuts in weapons systems designed to defeat Soviet tank armies and air forces and we should have been...

COLMES: All right. I want to talk about something else, Congressman. As you pointed out, the fact that we have nuclear materials in Russia that are loose. We have nuclear-in this country we have nuclear facilities that are not properly guarded, because this president doesn't want to spend the money to do it.

We have materials coming in containers in ports. The president did not want the money spent, but he's willing to spend-asked for $70 billion more for Iraq while we have to safeguard materials in this country and elsewhere in the world.

NADLER: That's right. The fact is, the-the greatest threat we face is that al Qaeda gets nuclear weapons. The technology is all over the place.

What makes it hard is getting the weapons-grade nuclear material. That's what costs billions of dollars to produce. It's lying all over the formula Soviet Union, not properly guarded, waiting to be sold on the black market.

We ought to get it out of there. The president is not doing it. Kerry has proposed spending $4 billion a year and getting it out of there before it's smuggled to al Qaeda.

COLMES: And that's...

NADLER: And that's the most important issue.

COLMES: And that's an issue of safety. Congressman Weldon, before we part company here, look, I believe that these terrorists, including bin Laden, they don't care who the president is. They like to feel they have an impact in terms of being able to change who our president is.

If Kerry were president and Bush were running as the challenger, they'd want to change that. That's what they're trying to do.

WELDON: No. No.

COLMES: They don't care whether it's Bush or Kerry. The terrorists - - they just want to have an impact on our elections.

WELDON: The terrorists-the terrorists believe what-what Colonel Gadhafi told me in that tent in Libya twice this year. He said, "Congressman, I don't like your president, but I respect him."

What the North Koreans said when we met with them, they said, "We want Bill Clinton back." It was Bill Clinton and the support of John Kerry...

COLMES: You're trying to scare the American people. That's the two scare tactics that you people use...

WELDON: It's not a scare tactic. It's a fact.

COLMES: ... to scare America. God forbid you vote Democratic. The terrorists are coming. That's a scare tactic.

WELDON: I know what Gadhafi said. You weren't over there. I was there. I listened to Gadhafi.

NADLER: Why should I believe a word you're saying? Why should I believe a word you're saying, what Gadhafi said to you?

HANNITY: Thank you for being with us. And I appreciate your time tonight.

And also coming up, we're going to take a look at the polls. They're still tight but new polls show that the president may be pulling ahead. We're going to show you the very latest numbers.

And later my exclusive interview from earlier today with California governor, Arnold Schwarzenegger. He was out campaigning with the president in Ohio. Will it make much of a difference in that swing state? That's all coming up. Stay tuned.