CNBC Kudlow & Cramer - Transcript

CNBC News Transcripts

SHOW: Kudlow & Cramer 5:00 AM EST CNBC

HEADLINE: Senator Susan Collins of Maine discusses intelligence reform

ANCHORS: LARRY KUDLOW, JIM CRAMER

BODY:
LARRY KUDLOW, co-host:

The Senate and the House are in a huddle trying to reach agreement on intelligence reform. It won't be easy. The proposals differ significantly with the House bill including a controversial package of measures to fight illegal immigration. What are the chances that we'll see a new director of intelligence and any other reforms soon? Joining us now is Senator Susan Collins, Republican from Maine, chairman of the Senate Governmental Affairs Committee. She's probably going to become the most famous senator in the history of the United States because of this reorganization, and I'm very pleased to have her back.

Senator Collins, this is an election year. I don't have to tell you; you're a professional. This issue of deportation and immigration, which seems to separate out the House and Senate bill-this is a little bit sticky in the next 12 days, isn't it?

Senator SUSAN COLLINS (Republican, Maine): It is. What I hope is that we can focus on the core recommendations of the 9-11 Commission. There is no doubt in my mind that we do need to strengthen and reform our immigration laws. But I think very controversial provisions that are in the House bill being attached to the intelligence reform bill is just not helpful, as we're scrambling to try to get this very important legislation completed before the election, ideally.

JIM CRAMER, co-host:

All right. Senator Collins, I think you're doing yeomen's work on the 9-11 Commission. There's been a series of articles that have been running in The New York Times today by this guy, Michael Gordon. We had this-he is an unbelievably great reporter: 'Poor intelligence misled troops about risk of drawn-out war,' just chapter and verse about how the CIA didn't really have a clue. Have you been reading this series? What's your take on it?

Sen. COLLINS: It's very troubling to learn of the intelligence failures because that doesn't serve our troops well. It's not only policymakers, like those of us who are elected officials, but we need to make sure that our troops on the ground have the very best intelligence possible. It's interesting, when I talk to, for example, the general who's head of the National Security Agency, he is a strong believer in reform because he thinks it will help improve the quality and quantity of intelligence provided to our troops. But it's very troubling to learn time and time again that the current system has really failed us.

KUDLOW: Senator Collins, you're one of the hardest-working, best-informed senators. In your opinion, does the Senate product break down the bureaucratic layers and the barriers between agencies in sharing information? I mean, 96 to 2--I don't think St. Paul could get a vote out of the Senate that's 96 to 2. Are you personally happy with that product?

Sen. COLLINS: I am very happy with the overwhelming support that the Senate gave to the Collins-Lieberman bill, the bill that I drafted with Senator Joe Lieberman. It is a strong bill, and it will break down those stove pipes that have prevented information from being shared across the intelligence community. We know from the 9-11 Commission's report that the lack of sharing of vital information between, for example, the CIA and the FBI was a major problem. And we want to break down those barriers. But the key is to create a national intelligence director that has real power. He or she has to have strong budgetary, personnel and transfer authority in order to avoid just creating another layer of bureaucracy. We would finally have one person who's in charge, accountable and responsible for results. And we just don't have that now.

CRAMER: All right. Senator Collins, how are we doing on the day-to-day since 9/11? The report was filled with instances where we basically didn't take seriously the af-and this is their words, not mine: the fundamental Muslim terror. It did not say we didn't take seriously the terror-the Baader-Meinhof gang. And it didn't talk about the Irish Republican Army. It talked about fundamental Muslim terrorism. How are we doing on that score? Have we gotten rid of any of the political correctness, or is it-we still in that tiptoe area where we don't know, like, a mosque is the same as a synagogue, which is the same as St. Patrick's Cathedral?

Sen. COLLINS: Well, the 9-11 Commission, as you point out, is very strong on the point that we need to confront, with a variety of diplomatic law enforcement, military and other means, the threat of extremist Islamic fundamentalism, which would do us harm. And we do have to confront that threat, at the same time recognizing that the vast majority of Muslims are peaceful, law-abiding people. I think that our legislation would allow us to be far more effective in confronting that threat, and it's one reason I feel so strongly about getting the job done now.

KUDLOW: Well, as you're-yeah. I mean, listen, you're getting it going.

CRAMER: Yeah.

KUDLOW: You're one of the keys. Apparently there's a letter come to you from Condi Rice and Josh Bolten, national security and budget. Just a real quick question: Did Ms. Rice try to impose any national security issues, and did Mr. Bolten try to impose any budgetary constraints on your effort?

Sen. COLLINS: They both gave us some useful suggestions and endorsed the need for action now, and that's what I was happiest about. The White House is involved and working very closely with us, with the goal of getting a bill through as quickly as possible.

CRAMER: Go ahead. Go ahead, Lawrence. You had a thought.

KUDLOW: Senator Collins, just a follow-up on this. Obviously it's an election year. We got, whatever, 10 or 11 days till November 2nd. In your view-I'm not going to ask you, Bush vs. Kerry, who's going to win. I got a more substantive question, I hope. In your view, does it matter which gentleman wins insofar as your reform effort is concerned with respect to follow-through and implementation and all the things that you know so much about?

Sen. COLLINS: I do think it matters because the Bush White House has been very engaged in advising us on this legislation and has strongly endorsed a new national intelligence director. They have the knowledge. They have been with us step by step, so they can get off the ground running. I mean, my hope would be that we can get this signed into law and that the president can appoint an NID, the new director, by the end of the year. If we change administrations, then obviously we're going to lose a great deal of time in the transition.

KUDLOW: Interesting. Senator Susan Collins, again, you honor us by gracing our show. We appreciate all your hard work. And I guess enjoy the next 10 days, pre-election. We hope to see you soon after that.