Hearing of the National Security, Emerging Threats and International Relations Subcommittee of the House Government Reform Committee - Combating...

Federal News Service September 22, 2004 Wednesday

HEADLINE: HEARING OF THE NATIONAL SECURITY, EMERGING THREATS AND INTERNATIONAL RELATIONS SUBCOMMITTEE OF THE HOUSE GOVERNMENT REFORM COMMITTEE SUBJECT: COMBATING TERRORISM: THE 9/11 COMMISSION RECOMMENDATIONS AND THE NATIONAL STRATEGIES

CHAIRED BY: REPRESENTATIVE CHRISTOPHER SHAYS (R-CT)

WITNESSES PANEL I: SLADE GORTON, MEMBER, NATIONAL COMMISSION ON TERRORIST ATTACKS UPON THE UNITED STATES; RICHARD BEN-VENISTE, MEMBER, NATIONAL COMMISSION ON TERRORIST ATTACKS UPON THE UNITED STATES;

PANEL II: NORMAN RABKIN, MANAGING DIRECTOR, HOMELAND SECURITY AND JUSTICE TEAM, U.S. GOVERNMENT ACCOUNTABILITY OFFICE; RAPHAEL PERL, SENIOR POLICY ANALYST, CONGRESSIONAL RESEARCH SERVICE;

JOHN V. PARACHINI, SENIOR POLICY ANALYST, RAND CORPORATION

BODY:

BREAK IN TRANSCRIPT

REP. STEPHEN LYNCH (D-MA): Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and I appreciate your good work and also of the ranking member.

And I want to thank the commissioners for helping Congress and this nation deal with the issue of how to develop a national strategy to deal with terrorism. I want to ask two questions and try to stay within the time limit, and I'm going to deal with one issue that is a more domestic issue for us, and then I'm going to switch to a sort of a global issue.

But I can't help but notice that prior to September 11th, if you visited any international airport outside of the U.S., whether it be Leonardo da Vinci Airport in Rome or Heathrow in London or Ben Gurion Airport in Israel, you already saw that heavy military presence, they were sort of combating terrorism before we were. And yet when you flew around domestically in the United States we had none of that, it was wide open.

I'm concerned about a trend I see globally, and that is over the last 10 or 12 years we've seen repeated attacks on rail systems around the globe. We've seen the Algerian terrorists in Paris, we've seen the Chechen rebels for 10 years attacking the subway system in Moscow. We've seen what happened in Madrid, Spain, most recently. And the transportation systems in Israel are continually subject to attack.

My concern is that in your 9/11 recommendations you talk about focusing on the neglected areas of our transportation systems in this country. We've spent about $8 billion on aviation security, we've spent less than one-tenth of 1 percent of that on rail security, even though we have five times as many people who travel in this country every day by rail than by air.

And I just wondered, my first question is, do you think that the way we're handling this right now is consistent with the recommendations of the 9/11 Commission? Do you think we need to change that, and what would those recommendations be? And I know you had to keep it general, otherwise we'd have a whole series of these volumes, but if I could get your thoughts on that?

MR. GORTON: Well, the short answer to your question is no. If on all of your transportation security, 90 percent of the money and effort is going into one mode, that's not an appropriate balance. You've mentioned rail, there's also of course maritime that is vitally important. And we didn't study or become experts on particularly methodologies to make transportation modes safer.

That was beyond our charge, that was beyond our staff. What we did do and point out is there does need to be a greater balance, and we need to look at these others and we need to come up with techniques that provide them a greater degree of security.

MR. BEN-VENISTE: I agree completely with Senator Gorton's observations. Quite clearly we point at the fact that greater attention needs to be paid to other areas, we are a target rich environment. We can have attacks occur on any number of vulnerable targets which would cause great loss of life. Obviously because we have seen the use of airplanes as missiles we focused on that, and I think not inappropriately.

A train's got to stay on its tracks, an airplane can fly anywhere and becomes essentially a hijacked weapon of mass destruction. And therefore it is appropriate that we pay attention for the potential for the hijacking and suicide use of airplanes now that with terrible consequences this has occurred. Whether we could have taken steps in advance of 9/11 is behind us, we now need to focus on the future.

And you are quite right, sir, in focusing on the example of what has occurred in other societies, allies of ours who have suffered attacks to their rail systems. Senator Gorton is correct, that we need greater attention paid to shipping. And so we make the recommendation that we not put all eggs in one basket.

REP. LYNCH: Thank you. My last question, and it's tougher. This morning there was an article in the New York Times, and I thought it was illustrative of our problem. It reported of a military parade that occurred in Tehran, Iran, last Tuesday. And at the parade, President Khatami, Mohammad Khatami said that even though Iran was going forward with its nuclear program, that it was devoted to peaceful use and that Khatami was saying that there was no need for us to fear and that it was for producing energy.

But meanwhile, in the background behind him in the parade, there were these Shahab 3 missiles, capable of reaching Israel. And what's especially troubling is on the side of the missiles themselves were banners, and one banner said, "Crush America," and the next banner said, "Wipe Israel off the face of the map." We're in a tough spot here, the president is, everyone is.

Based on what we hear some leaders say in the Middle East and what we see them doing presents a tremendous dilemma, it's what I'm worrying about this morning, and worrying-you know, I'm very, very grateful, as is everyone on this committee and in Congress for your willingness to devote your energies and your special talents towards helping us with this problem, but I'd like your thoughts on that particular dilemma.

MR. BEN-VENISTE: Well, let me say, Mr. Lynch, that I share your concerns. The words of our former president, Ronald Reagan, come to mind with respect to Mr. Khatami's statements. Trust but verify. With respect to what we can do, we must, through our international collaborative alliances, make sure that there is proper inspection and that nuclear programs not be misused for the purpose of creating weapon-grade nuclear materials which can be used against us or our allies.

I don't see getting into the weeds here today on anything more specific than to recognize that this indeed a major issue that reasserts itself in post Cold War politics, geopolitics.

REP. LYNCH: Thank you.

MR. GORTON: The challenge of Iran is a major challenge. We weren't the Iran commission, we were the 9/11 Commission, and we did not become experts on every element of foreign policy. We did, however, make this statement. The magnitude of the threat demands that preventing the proliferation of these weapons warrants a maximum effort on the part of the U.S. government.

We recommend expanding the membership and resources of the Proliferation Security Initiative and doing all that we can to support the cooperative threat reduction program to secure control over nuclear materials so that they do not become loose nukes. That doesn't tell you how to respond specifically to Iran, it's a major challenge you have in the Congress of the United States, to be honest with you.

We have had to concentrate on our specific mandate that you gave us here in Congress, and to get back to urging-expressing the strongest possible hope that the Congress, this year, in these next two or three weeks, can take significant action toward adopting those recommendations.

REP. LYNCH: Thank you, Senator.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

BREAK IN TRANSCRIPT