MSNBC "Hardball with Chris Matthews" - Transcript
Interview
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MATTHEWS: Senator Gillibrand, thanks so much for joining us. We`re getting you hooked up there. I don`t know. It`s a strange night to have you on. I`ve been wanting to have you on for a long time. You`re probably one of the most outspoken women senators on issues of importance to women.
Why do the Republican Party -- why are they all running today to avoid condemning this awful commentary by their intellectual leader, Rush Limbaugh?
SEN. KIRSTEN GILLIBRAND (D), NEW YORK: I think his remarks are incredible. They`re so insulting to women. They`re an absolute disregard to women`s health and safety. They`re incredible, really. I can`t -- they`re so inappropriate, I don`t even know where to start.
MATTHEWS: well, let me start with yesterday. Let`s look at a tape of what he said yesterday because this has had -- this has been going on for two days now, plenty of time for the Republican leaders who are pushing this restriction they`re trying to put on health care for women -- they could have said something. They`re not.
Here`s Limbaugh. He started it all yesterday. Let`s listen to what he said then.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
LIMBAUGH: What does it say that the college co-ed Susan Fluke, who goes before a congressional committee and essentially says that she must be paid to have sex -- what does that make her? It makes her a slut, right?
It makes her a prostitute. She wants to be paid to have sex.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MATTHEWS: Well, late this afternoon, Senator -- Congresswoman Louise Slaughter of your state in a letter to Speaker Boehner, the Republican, signed by more than 75 Democratic members of the Congress, called on Republican House leadership to repudiate Limbaugh`s comments.
She closed the letter, quote, "As leaders of the House that initially denied this -- Miss Fluke the right to speak, the Republicans have special obligation to condemn the atrocious and hurtful words spoken by Mr.
Limbaugh." Leader Pelosi also called on Republican leaders to condemn Limbaugh`s comments.
Are you hearing from any Republican senators on this? Are you hearing any of them saying, this isn`t us talking, even though we disagree on the policy question?
GILLIBRAND: I haven`t heard a word from the Republicans. And what we had today, Chris, was a vote on something so outrageous, so -- such a complete disregard for the health and wellbeing of women.
The bill today, the Blunt amendment, would basically say that any boss could determine for any reason that he objected to or she objected to that a woman couldn`t have access to basic medicine, basic health care.
And I don`t know why we are debating issues that were long since settled decades ago. It`s really -- it`s quite alarming to me that we are still talking about access to basic medicine and basic health care for women in this country.
And you add to that what Rush Limbaugh has been saying, and again, it`s this continuous slap in the face to America`s women. And it`s just such a disregard and a disrespect for them. And I think every Republican should apologize for his comments and at least separate themselves from them.
MATTHEWS: But there`s a certain educational factor when people speak wrong, when people say it in a wrong way, because then you really hear the emotion behind the words.
It seems to me that Rush Limbaugh has done your party, the Democrats and progressives, especially women, a favor here because for several weeks, they argued on the right very piously this is about religious freedom.
This is about the 1st Amendment and religious freedom we all treasure in this country.
Rushbo`s made it clear, Oh, no, it isn`t. This is about birth control. This is about whether insurance policies, which are basically mandated now by the Obama health care bill, should include birth control or not. He says they shouldn`t.
And it seems to me that`s now the issue on the right. They`ve finally gotten to the point they wanted to raise, We don`t want to pay for birth control because we don`t agree with it. Or what? How do you interpret it?
GILLIBRAND: I agree with your interpretation. And I think that, you know, what we decided in health care reform is that the quickest way to bend the cost curve is make sure people have access to preventive health care, basic preventive health care.
And you have to remember, Chris, 99 percent of America`s women have taken birth control in their lifetime, 98 percent of Catholic women. This is basic medicine. And for at least for 15 percent of women, they take it for reasons other than contraception.
So you`re basically trying to create a law that says a boss can say whether a woman can take medicine that her doctor`s prescribing for her for many reasons, whether it has to do with -- whether it has to do with -- for contraception or not.
And so what I find so problematic here is that they are just trying to deny women basic access to health care. And I think America`s women are watching this debate. They are understanding that these leaders in the Republican Party do not stand for them, their values or their priorities, and don`t care about them and their families.
MATTHEWS: Well, you know, one of the great ironies here, and it`s a tricky subject -- and you and I know each other, and to me, I`m very careful about these issues. I`m worried about saying the wrong thing. But it seems to me that those who do have a concern morally, not legally, about birth control, they are pro-choice because they believe it is up to the individual in a free society.
They would like to see the number of abortions radically reduced in this country because it is usually the result of an unwanted pregnancy. By definition, it is. If you have a lot of people taking birth control, especially young people who are single and don`t want to have a child, this could be a godsend. I hate to use that word, but it is -- all these young people now would be encouraged, subsidized by the health care bill of the president`s to use birth control, if they`re sexually active, reducing dramatically the number of unwanted pregnancies.
It seems to me that this is a win-win for everybody. But that`s my judgment.
MATTHEWS: That`s what the health studies show, Chris, is that when women have access to family planning, they`ll make decisions about when it`s best for them to have children.
MATTHEWS: Right.
GILLIBRAND: And so when they do have children, these are wanted children. These are children they`re welcoming into their lives.
MATTHEWS: Let me talk to you about the politics of this thing. It seems to me that we`re finding on the edges of the two political parties problem areas. Olympia Snowe voted with your caucus today, voted against the -- it`s probably one of the reasons she`s getting out of the Senate right now.
But you have Claire McCaskill out there getting hit. She`s facing a tough -- I know she`s a friend of yours, as well as a colleague. She`s facing a tough reelection in Missouri, which is always a tough state. It`s right down the line politically.
The Missouri Republican Party`s going after her in radio ads already on the health care. Let`s listen to what one of your colleagues is taking for agreeing with you. Let`s listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: First, they took over the banks. Then they put government in charge of our health care. Now what are Barack Obama and Claire McCaskill focused on? Regulating the Catholic church. Obama and McCaskill want to force the Catholic church and Americans of faith to abandon tenets of their religion. Obama and McCaskill already forced us to pay for government bailouts, a wasteful stimulus and "Obama care." Tell them enough is enough.
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MATTHEWS: What would you say? What would you say in response to that viewer (ph) in Missouri?
GILLIBRAND: Listen, the ad is outrageous and it`s a bald-faced lie. So you`re saying that we`re telling the Catholic church what to do? No, we are not. In fact, President Obama made such a reasonable and very respectful compromise. He excluded churches and synagogues and institutions that are primarily for religious purposes, where the people who work there are the same religion.
What is not excluded are large employers, universities, hospitals, who can`t pick and choose what laws they`re actually going to follow. You can`t choose which labor law you think is worthwhile and which one isn`t.
We`ve decided that long, long ago. And in fact, the Supreme Court Justices, the most conservative of them, Justice Scalia, made that point, said you are not allowed to pick and choose what laws you want to follow based on some religious objection.
And so this is long-settled law. And in at least 28 states, Chris, this has been the law of the land for about a decade, where states have made the determination that these larger institution that serve the public at large in commercial ventures actually have to play by the same rules as everybody else.
MATTHEWS: Right.
GILLIBRAND: And so the ad is a lie. I hope they hit back equally as hard. And Claire McCaskill stood up for the women of her state. She -- 99 percent of America`s women -- back to this issue again -- take birth control in their lifetime, many for non-contraceptive reasons.
And I can tell you, American women want to know that Claire stands up for them, and that`s exactly what she`s done. She stands up for their values, their access to basic health care--
MATTHEWS: Right.
GILLIBRAND: -- their access to medicines and for the basic principle that bosses should not decide what medicines an employee should be eligible to take. It`s really quite simple. And so I hope that--
MATTHEWS: And not only did they -- I`m sorry to interrupt, but I think you missed a point important to me. And that is not only did he compromise by excepting churches and synagogues, he went further later on and made it clear that the insurance companies would have to pay for this coverage and not require the churches or synagogues to sign onto something they can`t within their own religious beliefs do so. I think he really went the extra yard here.
You`re great to come on the show tonight. I didn`t know you`d be coming on in the face of Rush Limbaugh, but I think you did a good job on that character, the new spiritual grand pooh-bah of the Republican Party.
Anyway, thank you so much, Senator Kirsten Gillibrand of the Empire state, New York.
GILLIBRAND: Thank you.
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