MSNBC "Hardball with Chris Matthews" - Transcript

Interview

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New York Senator Charles Schumer opposes the legislation to basically give people the opt-out.

Why do you oppose this? And explain why you do, Senator.

SEN. CHARLES SCHUMER (D), NEW YORK: Well, let me say this, Chris, that this legislation would allow any employer to decide what parts of health care he wanted to provide or she wanted to provide and what parts
she or he didn`t.

And that is just totally against what we have had all along. It is an overly broad amendment. The president has come up with a fair compromise on contraception, which doesn`t impinge on people`s religious beliefs, but lets the woman decide whether she wants contraception, not her boss. And that makes eminent sense.

MATTHEWS: Let me go to Senator Hoeven.

Thank you for joining me, Senator Hoeven from South (sic) Dakota, a Republican.

He`s not here.

Well, I guess the question about this is the politics of it, Senator Schumer. Do you think this is a winner? Not that you want to be crude about it, but is this something Democrats could be happy to run on?

SCHUMER: Well, look, we think that the Republican Party has made a huge mistake.

This issue has such force that it forced their leading presidential candidate to first say he was against the Blunt amendment and then retract it because I`m sure he got a lot of pressure and say he`s for it. This is
so far over that the overwhelming majority not just of Democrats, but of independents are on our side on this issue.

They understand that women have the right to decide what they want in their health care, not their employer who claims a religious conviction. And, yes, I think they ought to do what they did on the payroll tax cut, realize their mistake, realize that they`re so far over to the right that they`re losing the middle, and back off.

That`s I think what Romney tried to do, but then he got pressure andhad to first be against it before he was for it.

MATTHEWS: Actually, the latest word we`re getting -- well, we`re getting the latest word actually. We will get it clarified perhaps in the next couple minutes. But here it is, and here`s Romney talking about it
now.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

QUESTION: -- with banning or allowing employers to ban providing female contraception. Have you taken a position on it? He has said he`s for that. And we will talk about personhood in a second. But he`s for
that. Have you taken a position on it?

MITT ROMNEY (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I`m not -- I`m not for the bill.

But, look, the idea of presidential candidates getting into questions about contraception within a relationship between a man and a woman, a husband and wife, I`m not going there.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MATTHEWS: Well, now we`re getting more recent reports than that saying he`s for it, he`s for the Blunt amendment. So that`s already out of date, that he`s changed his mind on that baby already, Senator Schumer.

SCHUMER: Exactly. Exactly. He had to flip-flop.

I think his original instinct when he was asked the question was correct. Most -- it would resonate with most American people, that it shouldn`t be the Congress here deciding or empowering an employer to decide
whether a woman gets contraception.

And make no mistake about it. This amendment, if it passes, will, if the employer so chooses, ban contraception for millions of American women. That`s going back to the 19th century. And it`s fueled by a hardcore belief of a few. And unfortunately too many Republicans are afraid to resist it.

MATTHEWS: Let`s take a look at what Scott Brown said about this. He`s a Republican up in Massachusetts. He`s here -- in this radio interview, he`s trying to cite Ted Kennedy`s position on this in the past.

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

SEN. SCOTT BROWN (R), MASSACHUSETTS: Like Ted Kennedy before me, I support a conscience exemption in health care for Catholics and other people of faith. I believe it`s possible to provide people with access to
the health care they want while at the same time protecting the rights of Americans to follow their religious beliefs.

For me, the conscience exemption is a matter of fundamental fairness.

(END AUDIO CLIP)

MATTHEWS: Well, then Patrick Kennedy, obviously the son of the late Senator Ted Kennedy, put out a statement subsequent to that saying: "My father would have never supported this extreme legislation."

By the way, just to clarify what Scott Brown said there, it doesn`t just give a religious exemption, as you know. It says a moral exemption.

SCHUMER: Correct.

MATTHEWS: Anybody, regardless of non-affiliation, can simply say, you know, I don`t really believe in that, and then you don`t have it for your employees.

SCHUMER: Correct.

MATTHEWS: They`re all out to lunch.

SCHUMER: Exactly.

MATTHEWS: No birth control protection.

SCHUMER: Exactly. It goes beyond contraception.

The motivation, I think, was contraception. And we`re happy to debate that issue. But the legislation goes so far. If an employer says, I don`t believe in vaccination, then you can`t get insurance for vaccination.

MATTHEWS: Yes.

SCHUMER: It`s way beyond contraception.

MATTHEWS: In fact, you used the moral -- you could say I think vaccination is dangerous, therefore, it`s a moral issue.

I mean, this is--

SCHUMER: Correct.

MATTHEWS: You`re right. It`s all across the board.

Senator Schumer, thanks for coming on.

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