MSNBC "The Ed Show" - Transcript

Interview

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Senator, before we get to this, I do want to ask you, your reaction to Mitt Romney, "I`m not concerned about poor people because we have a social safety net for them. And if it needs fixing, I`ll fix it"? What is your response?

SEN. BERNIE SANDERS (I), VERMONT: I think it`s a horrendous and very ugly statement, especially coming from somebody who`s worth hundreds of millions of dollars. Ed, the reality is that poverty today is at an all time high. We did a hearing on this in my sub committee, if you are in the lowest 20 percent of the American people, you will die six-and-a-half years younger than if you`re in the top 20 percent.

So, poverty in many ways is a death sentence. Romney and his friends want to cut Medicaid, throw children off of health insurance, they want to cut Medicare, they want to cut Social Security, and they are going to war against the poorest people in this country. I think that is an immoral, just -- an immoral position to take.

SCHULTZ: And while they are going to war against the most vulnerable in our society, they are defending, and they want more for wealthiest Americans when it comes to tax cuts. So, is this a good time for the
Democrats to get behind the Buffett Rule? The president talked about it in the State of the Union address. And, now, you`re a co-sponsor.

What do you make of it?

SANDERS: I think it`s an absolutely opportune time to be addressing these issues. Look, this is what`s going on. We`ve got a huge deficit in this country because of two unpaid wars brought about by the Bush
administration, huge tax breaks for the wealthiest people in this country, and a recession.

What the Republicans want to do to deal with this deficit is cut Social Security, Medicare and Medicaid. What many of us think is that when the wealthiest people in this country today are doing phenomenally well,
the gap between the very rich and everybody else is wider than it has ever been. The effective tax rate, i.e. real tax rate for millionaires and billionaires is the lowest it has been in decades, where you have a quarter
of millionaires in this country are paying a lower effective tax rate than the average middle class person -- of course, it is proper. Of course, it is right to ask the wealthiest people to pay more.

SCHULTZ: Every survey we`ve seen shows that the American people want the wealthiest Americans to pay more. Why $1 million? Why 30 percent? Is there rhyme and reason to those numbers?

SANDERS: I don`t think there`s any magical reason for it. I think what most people perceive is that somebody making $1 million should not be paying an effective tax rate lower than ordinary people.

SCHULTZ: Yes.

SANDERS: You`ve got a guy like Romney, a multi-zillionaire, very, very wealth person, paying 14 percent effective tax rate, most people understand that that is wrong. So, I think the $1 million is just -- it`s
a number that people understand. I think 30 percent is a fair number to proceed with.

SCHULTZ: Here`s your colleague, Senator Whitehouse, today on the floor.

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WHITEHOUSE: In theory, high end taxpayers are paying 35 percent and many do. There are a lot of hardworking, high-earning really great folks out there who are doing well and who are paying the full 35 percent. But there`s a group that`s been able to take advantage of a loophole so that they only pay 15 percent or in some cases less.

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SCHULTZ: Both of you are singing from the common sense hymnal, no question about it. Are there any Republicans that you think that might say, you know what, maybe we need to do this for the country? Or all of them in the Senate going to say, no, we`re not going to do any of this? This too obvious is a problem. But do you think any Republicans that would go along with this?

SANDERS: Ed, this is what I think. I don`t think there are Republicans who will do it, quote-unquote, "for the country". They would do it and will do it when we put enough pressure on them and when millions
of people start telephoning Congress and make their position clear.

I would not want to be a Republican defending a position that says, not only do we think that the wealthy should not be asked to pay more, we believe the wealthy should be able to pay less, while we cut programs that the middle class desperately needs.

How would you like to campaign on that position?

SCHULTZ: I would not. I think it`s a moral issue as much as anything else. That`s why we put the vulture chart up quite often here on THE ED SHOW.

Estimates would be that $40 billion to $50 billion dollars in revenue alone. That`s a big number, the country needs it. Senator, great to have you with us. Thanks for co-sponsoring that. The country needs it.

Coming up, Republicans in Indiana score a major victory against unions. But the workers vow to fight back. How will they do that?

Unexpected announcement today from the secretary of defense. It`s a big one. Leon Panetta lays out a timeline for the United States to end combat operations in Afghanistan.

We`re right back.

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